ZSA compatibility with OS X 10.6

bigsee · April 3, 2013

Hello there!

I'm a new prospective user of Zotero and I am excited by its potential to transform the way I work and research.

However, as expressed on another thread about compatibility with 10.5.8, I am struggling to find the right version of ZSA for me.

I read that anyone using 10.6 or later should be fine to use ZSA. Chrome is my browser of choice for various reasons and I'd rather not have to use two browsers. However, when trying to install both ZSA 4.0 and 3.0.14 downloaded from the site, I get an error message saying that they only work on 10.6.3 or later.

Following massive recent performance issues with OS X updates (I was previously on 10.6.8), I have a clean install of 10.6 on my Macbook. It is working much better now and I am loathe to start installing the combo updates again just for ZSA.

I can't find the mystical 3.0.11 anywhere. Is it still available? And is there any special reason why I should need to upgrade to 10.6.3 to use ZSA?

Any advice/opinions would be warmly received... :)

P.S. I appreciate previous comments about compatibility issues only affecting 0.01% of users. However, I feel that must be inaccurate given that I'm hardly using an archaic machine and 10.6 is hardly the oldest operating system around. This has cost me time in downloads and failed installs which I could have saved had it been obvious that there were compatibility issues. Surely a couple of lines on system requirements doesn't take up THAT much space. ;)

adamsmith · April 3, 2013

I don't know about the 10.6.3 requirement - if that's indeed the case it should be added to the existing system requirements page:
http://www.zotero.org/support/compatibility_matrix
and potentially more prominently on the download page. My point about the .01% referred to systems before 10.6 (though I assume Zotero devs expect people to perform free updates of their OS, which, after all, also include security fixes).

All old Zotero versions follow the same pattern, but 3.0.11 for Mac was replaced by a mini-bugfix upgrade 3.0.11.1 so the download URL is
http://download.zotero.org/standalone/3.0.11.1/Zotero-3.0.11.1.dmg
Note that using old Zotero versions has downsides. You'll eventually get cut-off from translator updates (making it much more likely for import to fail) and syncing - the latter, at least, may very well happen this year.

bigsee · April 3, 2013

UPDATE: Managed to find 3.0.11.1 by amending a link to another version of ZSA. However, would still love to know if there is a good reason why I can't use the latest version of ZSA (4.0). Thanks!

bigsee · April 3, 2013

@adamsmith - thanks for that. very helpful! see above for question about 10.6.3. would love to use the latest version, especially for all the reasons you outline against using old versions.

Simon · April 3, 2013

Zotero could theoretically run on OS X 10.6.0, but the Word plugin would crash because of this bug. Rather than let people run into this, I just set it to require 10.6.3.

Is there a reason you're not running 10.6.8? It's a free upgrade from 10.6 (and if your computer was connected to the internet when you installed 10.6, it would have prompted you to install it immediately after restart), and it fixes numerous bugs that can result in system instability and security issues with earlier versions that otherwise leave your system vulnerable to attack.

Because nearly everyone with OS X 10.6 has updated to 10.6.8, there are far fewer people running 10.6.0-10.6.2 than there are running 10.5 (e.g. the Adium Sparkle stats show 0.2%, versus 8.6% still on 10.5.8).

bigsee · April 4, 2013

@Simon - thanks for the update.

This morning I seem to have run straight into the bug that you have described. As described in my early posts, there is a very good reason that I am using 10.6.0 and haven't upgraded to the latest release for my OS (10.6.8) in my humble opinion.

I'm not a "power" user by any means but I certainly do know my computer. I maintain it myself and - after five or six years - have a fairly good feel for what it likes and doesn't like. The latest 10.6 releases from Apple were very buggy and caused me massive performance and stability issues, with crashes and intermittent beach balls becoming commonplace. And a quick Google search will hopefully demonstrate that I'm not alone - 10.6.8 performance issues are pretty widespread.

Perhaps many people have upgraded to 10.6.3 and above after a clean install but I also think lots of 10.6 users on slightly older Macs will have decided to revert to 10.5 where possible. I don't think Apple ever got it right with 10.6. I would revert if I could since my Mac has never performed as well on any release of 10.6, but too much software that I regularly use now requires 10.6 or higher. On the other hand, I'm not currently in a position to buy a new laptop in order to skip 10.6 and take advantage of 10.7 or 10.8.

I guess I will have to try and evaluate Zotero without using the Word plug-in if possible and see if there are enough gains to warrant the risk of upgrading to 10.6.3. Is using Zotero without the Word plug-in even possible?

Apologies for my ignorance on the subject as a new (attempted) user.

adamsmith · April 4, 2013

I depends what you want to do. You can certainly use Zotero without the Word plugin, but you won't have much in terms of cite while you write functionality. You will be able to collect items, organize them and create bibliographies, though, so about 3/4 or so of what Zotero does.

dstillman · April 4, 2013

And a quick Google search will hopefully demonstrate that I'm not alone - 10.6.8 performance issues are pretty widespread.

I wouldn't pay much attention to what you can find in search results (which is anything). In the tech community, 10.6.8 is widely regarded as one of the most stable releases Apple has put out in years (and they're still selling it today). And more importantly, as Simon says, by running an outdated version you're also putting your system at risk from known security vulnerabilities. Up to you, of course, but we won't be supporting the earlier versions.

bigsee · April 4, 2013

@adamsmith - thanks. that still sounds like a lot of useful functionality, esp. creating bibliographies so would probably still be worth a crack.

@Dan - I really don't think you need/ought to be so dismissive or patronising. I'm well aware that you can find anything in search results; even a Googlewhack returns a result. However, I have spent hours and hours trying to remedy the issues I've had with 10.6.8 and come across many people on the forums doing the same thing. The volume of people inside and outside of the tech community who are complaining of issues is significant. And I'm afraid their (frustrating) experience must count for something, whether you like it or not.

That Apple are still selling the software is of dubious relevance in my opinion - given that many people are using machines that prevent them from upgrading to 10.7 or beyond (as I explained in my case), the fact it is still being sold is hardly evidence of its positive performance.

I am also well aware that updating to the latest release of an OS is one way (of umpteen) to protect one's system from vulnerabilities. As far as I know people roll back/upgrade to different releases all the time as suits their system so I think I'll be fine for now. However, with the greatest of respect, I didn't enter the forum asking for security advice or to be patronised, which I feel I have been.

I entered the forum as a prospective new user/customer trying to take his tentative first steps with the Zotero software and seeking to clarify compatibility issues - issues that ought to have been made clear at or before the point of download (and certainly before I spent a load of time trying to get different versions to work). I leave it slightly disappointed at the tone of your response but in no doubt whatsoever about my options nevertheless.

dstillman · April 4, 2013

I apologize if I came off as patronizing—I'm mostly just giving you the rationale for our decision. Outdated software with known vulnerabilities is essentially a public health threat to the Internet, and that's going to factor into our decisions about what to support. Coupled with a major compatibility issue, various stability bugs fixed in later point releases, and the fact that almost everyone has upgraded, I think it's pretty reasonable not to support it.

(It's true that hardware compatibility is the main reason it's still being sold by Apple, but the fact that it's being sold also means it's still supported—it received a security update less than a month ago.)

adamsmith · April 4, 2013

I've added 10.6.3 to the system requirements
http://www.zotero.org/support/compatibility_matrix

I don't see any reason why there shouldn't be a small link on the download page to this.

bigsee · April 6, 2013

@Dan - thank you for your apology, which I gratefully accept. For my part, I apologise for getting so worked up. My frustration got the better of me. In my determination to give Zotero a go, I have since backed up my system with Time Machine and will give 10.6.8 another go. I've been battling with a runaway kernel_task process eating up CPU so I will try to find the source. I will also look at the security update you helpfully linked to and install ZSA 4.0. Thank you.

@adamsmith - I think the addition of that information to the matrix is very helpful. Thank you. I do think that a small 'compatibility' or 'system requirements' link on the download page would help to make the matrix more prominent and save people time so hopefully that will make its way on there soon.