Duplicates are not found, nor can I rearrange files

Beckengel
Zotero did not find my duplicates
Nor does it function well with rearranging my files by drag and drop
If I drag a file to a folde, it may be copied there or not, I have to check ; but I cant move the file, only copy
  • aurimas
    zotero "folders" are called collections and they function more like playlists than folders (think music player, like iTunes). When you drag an item to a collection you are not moving it or copying it, you are simply assigning it to a collection. This does not create multiple instances of items, so if you edit one, the changes are seen across collections.

    Similarly, just because the same item resides inside multiple collections, it is not considered duplicate. If you click on " My Library" Zotero will list ALL items in your library. if you see duplicate items in that list and Zotero does not detect them as such, we would probably want to fix that.

    I do agree that Zotero needs a way to move an item from one collection to another. There's some discussion on this already (sorry, don't have a link right now)
  • Beckengel
    edited January 6, 2013
    But then how do I know which collections hold the same file ?
    May that file appears in 4 different collections ?
    As reguards rearranging items between collections, it is a serious flaw.
    Any alternative app to Zotero ?
  • aurimas
    www.zotero.org/support/collections_and_tags#identifying_which_collections_an_item_is_in

    the whole article might be of interest though
  • DWL-SDCA
    Please spend some time reading the Zotero documentation. Do a Google search on "Zotero tutorials" and watch the introductory ones. I don't understand what yoy are trying to do with Zotero (especially after reading your post about bank accounts). Zotero is without question the best reference / bibliography management software available (free or paid). Zotero's purpose is to help with scholarly writing tasks and manuscript preparation. Zotero isn't limited to MS Word but works quite well with OpenOffice and Libre Office.
  • Beckengel
    edited January 6, 2013
    I am using Zotero for saving logins to my bank accounts, library, forums etc. I simply saved the login sites, my passwords etc so I can see as soon as I click the bank adress in Zotero + comments. What is so strange about it ?
    It works for me - is Zotero not intended for that ?
  • DWL-SDCA
    edited January 6, 2013
    If you are having problems, perhaps a dedicated login-password management program might be better suited to the task.

    I understand that sometimes Zotero is useful as a means of accomplishing tasks for which it wasn't intended. My primary use of Zotero is something that probably wasn't imagined by the developers.
  • Beckengel
    Which app is a dedicated login password manager and free ?
    What are you using Z for ?
  • mronkko
    edited January 6, 2013
    Zotero is for academic writing and managing your sources.

    I use LastPass for password management.
  • Beckengel
    I still do not know how to find all the collections that contain a certain file
    Even if you define those as the same item, they appear as if they are different instances in different collections, very confusing
    THe duplicate problem is not solved by just redefining the concept "same item"
  • adamsmith
    see aurimas's link above.
    The items are the same item: if you change one of them, they all change. That has nothing to do with redefining and is a common enough concept in contemporary software, cf. e.g. gmail categories of playlists of most music players.
    Beyond that, you seem to be using Zotero for something it's not intended for, which you're more than welcome to, but we can't really provide much in terms of support for that.
  • Beckengel
    edited January 21, 2013
    Suppose I save this website Z and it appears in a folder A; I drag it to another folder B. Now I have Z in both folders A and B.
    Next I remove Z in folder A and so will have Z only in folder B.
    See ? there was a duplicate !
  • mronkko
    Your argument is the following:

    I add an MP3 into my music library in a playlist A. Then I drag it into another playlist B. Then I remove it from playlist A. The MP3 still exists in playlist B, so therefore it must be a duplicate.

    Items exists in the library and can belong to many collections. Removing an item from a collection does not remove it from the library. (There is an option in removing it from a library, which will naturally remove it from all the collections.)
  • Beckengel
    And how can I find out in which collections a certain item appears ? do I need to open each one of the collections ?
  • adamsmith
    edited January 21, 2013
    (There is an option in removing it from a library, which will naturally remove it from all the collections.)
    I just want to highlight this once more. If you actually _delete_ (ctrl+delete or "delete selected item from library" in the context menu) an item while looking at it in a collection it will be deleted from _all_ collections it is in. That's why it's not a duplicate.
  • adamsmith
    aurimas gave you the link for seeing which collections an item is in above:
    www.zotero.org/support/collections_and_tags#identifying_which_collections_an_item_is_in
  • Beckengel
    edited January 29, 2013
    Getting back to your comparison with the Playing list in a music library:
    Are Collections only shortcuts of originals, and the originals are seen only when you click on the Library ?
  • mronkko
    No. There is just one copy of each item, but it can be associated with many collections.

    Consider a boy that belongs to a school class, a boy scout group, and a family. You would not say that the boy in school class or the boy in the boy scout group would be "a shortcut" to the original boy in the family. It is the same boy, but he just belongs to multiple groups of people.
  • adamsmith
    and following that metaphor, if he joins and orchestra (i.e. gets moved to another collection), he'll still be in all the other groups and, thankfully, if he leaves the boy scout group (i.e. is removed from that collection) he still very much exists.
  • Beckengel
    edited January 29, 2013
    yes but the way to implement this in the computer is to create shortcuts. That is what is done in the playlists in iTunes f ex.
    I can create lots of shortcuts on file A and place them in different "collections"
    I still don't know how to move an item to another collection. I can only drag and drop , i e to copy. In order to move the item out of the collection I need to delete it. Too complicated.
  • adamsmith
    yes but the way to implement this in the computer is to create shortcuts. That I can do very simply. I can create lots of shortcuts on file A and place them in different "collections"
    that's incorrect. If you create multiple shortcuts to a file and then delete the file, all the shortcuts are still there - they're just dead links. If you delete an item in Zotero, it disappears from all collections.

    Allowing a modifier key that "moves" on drag&drop instead of "copying" has been planned for a while, it has just not been implemented. It shouldn't be hard to find one of the threads discussing that.
  • Beckengel
    You said "If you delete an item in Zotero, it disappears from all collections"
    How is that done on the programming level?
  • adamsmith
    edited January 29, 2013
    not sure what type of answer you're looking for - I'm not an sqlite expert, but IIRC, collections are just treated as item properties in the zotero sqlite. (That also makes it easy to restore an item to all it's collections from the trash, e.g.)

    edit: see below.
  • adamsmith
    sorry, I don't think that was right. Here's the actual code that does this:
    https://github.com/zotero/zotero/blob/master/chrome/content/zotero/xpcom/data/item.js#L1960
  • fbennett
    edited January 29, 2013
    Under the hood, Zotero item data is stored in a set of database tables. The data for each item is referenced using a unique itemID. When an item is added to a collection, its itemID (with the ID of the target collection) is added to a collectionItems table. When the item is finally deleted from Zotero, all rows containing its itemID are removed from the table.

    (as adamsmith says)
  • dstillman
    Actually https://github.com/zotero/zotero/blob/master/chrome/content/zotero/xpcom/data/collection.js#L630, though I doubt Beckengel really cares.
  • Beckengel
    edited January 30, 2013
    That code is terribly advanced for an ordinary mortal like me, let us return to more down-to-earh questions.
    Pressing the Library and then deleting an item there, will delete it from the Library and thus all Collections.
    Conclusion: this behaves as if the original was in the Library while the items in Collections behave like shortcuts. From my point of view there is no difference but now you will reply : there is no shortcut or original, they are all the same file ! Right ?

    On a Mac machine you delete a program whereas on a Windows machine you "uninstall". On a Mac the shortcuts are also deleted - therefore this behavior is not unique for Zotero. But in a Window machine the shortcuts are not deleted although the program is uninstalled.
    Conclusion: your philosophy is perplexing. Mine is clear.
  • adamsmith
    glad that's settled. We can close this thread then.
  • RintzeRintze
    Also http://www.zotero.org/support/forum_guidelines#be_civil
This discussion has been closed.