cannot move anything from my library to group library

NoroCORE
Hi, I am having trouble moving collections (or single entries) from my library into my shared Group library (for which I am admin). I am new to Zotero, so I do not know if this is user error or if something is still going wrong with the server. I am trying to move collections of citations + PDFs from my library to a group one. The group one was previously empty, I am populating it now for my job (we are trying to build a shared database for our collaborators).

When I click on Sync, it says it was last Synced 1 day ago even though I have tried syncing both manually and letting it do so automatically since then (multiple times over the course of the whole day). I have both boxes checked under File Syncing in Preferences (i.e. have checked Sync attachment files in My Library using Zotero, and Sync file attachment in group libraries using Zotero storage).

My colleague who is my "Test user" cannot see anything in the shared library, and in my account settings it is showing that none of my storage space is in use (and given the number of files I "moved" there today, it should be....500ish articles).

Please let me know how I can fix this. I'm not super tech savvy so please also be explicit. Thank you!!
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  • adamsmith
    edited October 23, 2012
    http://www.zotero.org/support/kb/changes_not_syncing

    Just to clarify: You're succesfully moving items to the group locally, right? They just don't appear in other people's libraries?

    What exactly happens if you click the green sync button (the round green arrow at the top right that is)?
  • NoroCORE
    They do seem to be moving locally. They appear under Group Libraries --> name of collection--> collection subfolders. They just don't appear in others'. If I delete it out of my library, the copy i put in the group library is still there and accessible.

    If I click the green sync button nothing happens. It spins a lot (and has been spinning a lot), occasionally stops, but always says "last update 1 day ago." Have tried restarting, resetting, etc.

    hope that helps. thanks!

    p.s. one other quick question- things I store on my local Zotero- do they take up my account storage space, or do only the group/share libraries? i've been deleting them out of my local library (I have a back up on my HD) so as not to duplicate space usage. thanks!
  • NoroCORE
    also- when I check on zotero.org, it says there are no items in the group library. is it just not done syncing? it's been at it for hours. how long does it usually take to move something like 500 citations/pdfs?
  • adamsmith
    Restart Firefox/Zotero.
    Try syncing again. Wait until the arrow stops spinning (even for a large library with files that shouldn't take longer than 1h). Check again on zotero.org. If you don't see anything again, provide a debug ID http://www.zotero.org/support/debug_output that includes the moment you start the sync and includes the first couple of minutes of syncing.
    p.s. one other quick question- things I store on my local Zotero- do they take up my account storage space, or do only the group/share libraries? i've been deleting them out of my local library (I have a back up on my HD) so as not to duplicate space usage. thanks!
    that depends on whether you also sync your local library or the group only. If you sync your personal library and have file syncing enabled for that , yes it does take up server space. Otherwise, no.
  • dstillman
    The issue here isn't the group library—it's that you have a queued upload for ~10,400 items (including notes and attachments) in your personal library, and that's on top of over 41,000 items you already have in your personal library. That's at the top end of Zotero library sizes, so running into trouble isn't unlikely.

    This upload doesn't appear to include any items in the group library, so if you only want those items in your group library, I can cancel this sync (which is currently stalled anyway) and you can make sure the items exist only in the group library and then try to sync again. If you want the items in both, we can try to get this to go through, though there's no guarantee that it will work.

    We're working on some changes to how syncing works in order to better support large libraries like yours, and we're hoping to have those changes available in a beta release by the end of the year.
  • NoroCORE
    Hi, please do break the ongoing sync. I have a feeling that some of it's from attempting to sync more than once anyways. I just want things moved from My Library to the group library. I don't want anything deleted from my library, but my library does not need to be synced to the server, it's already backed up on my HD. once the stuff in the queue to move to the group library is moved, I will have more to move as well so let's just go forward. The only thing I want taking up our storage space is stuff in group libraries, none in my library.

    as I move forward, what size chunks would be good to move at once so I don't overwhelm it? for example if I move a library of 200 articles at a time is that going to "clog" things again? if so, how many is it "safe" to migrate over at once? once they're all migrated over, I will only be adding a few every month or so, so it's just this initial migration that's an issue.

    thanks much for your help.
  • NoroCORE
    Addendum to previous comment.

    Mr Stillman, I actually think I should clarify what I'm trying to do, perhaps you can advise if there's a better way to manage it.

    We have a library of approx 2500 articles and their associated PDFs. We were using EndNote but since we can't share attachments via that with collaborators, are switching to Zotero. We purchased 10 GB storage space for the library (I think it takes up about 8GB right now). It will be slowly expanding over the next few years as new publications come out, but no more than 30ish articles a month I think.

    So what I am doing right now is the initial move of the citations + PDFs from EndNote to Zotero. I'm not sure how the queue made it up to the volume you are listing, unless it queued multiple times when we were attempting to troubleshoot yesterday.

    All we want on the 10GB of server storage space is the group libraries, and I don't want any duplicates. So if needed, you can please stop all syncing (since it's stalled anyways) and I will start over again, only syncing the group libraries.

    In that case, how many can I move at once to avoid stalling the sync?

    Will a single account be able to handle this volume (when I talked to tech support before purchasing, it sounded ok...)?

    Thank you much!!!
  • dstillman
    I'm not sure how the queue made it up to the volume you are listing, unless it queued multiple times when we were attempting to troubleshoot yesterday.
    No, it doesn't work that way. I think there were a lot of item deletions in the upload too, so if you tried the import multiple times and deleted some items, it could have been a separate batch. One way or another, though, you have 41K items in your library on the server and were uploading another 10K. Note that this includes child notes and attachments, so if the import created lots of child notes, there'd be a multiple of your top-level items. You can check for yourself how many you have locally.
    So if needed, you can please stop all syncing (since it's stalled anyways) and I will start over again, only syncing the group libraries.
    For item data, you can't sync only group libraries.

    But if all of these items will ultimately end up in the group library, you can move batches of them—say, 500 or so at a time—to the group library, delete them from the personal library, empty the trash, and sync.

    I've cleared your queued sync on the server.
  • NoroCORE
    Thank you much!

    Just to clarify- everything will ultimately be in the group library, so I can move items to group library, delete from personal library, trash, then sync group library and it will be ok? Thanks much
  • dstillman
    Yup—that's correct.
  • NoroCORE
    Giving it a shot- cleared out everything except the 460 items to synch into the group library. How long should that take (so I can tell if/when there's a problem again)? Thanks
  • NoroCORE
    Ok, so I tried the above as discussed. The sync arrow, when I mouse over, says "upload accepted - waiting for sync server." It has been running for about 2 hours now. Nothing is appearing in my library when I look via zotero.org, and it is still spinning.

    What's the next step for troubleshooting? Thanks,
  • NoroCORE
    Let me clarify- I tried to sync 460 items i had added to my otherwise empty group library, and emptied out my personal library. all that should have been syncing was the 460 items in the group library. in 2 hours nothing had happened, I left it running at work and still nothing has shown up in my library in zotero.org.

    Please help, I'm trying to get this taken care of asap. Thanks much
  • DWL-SDCA
    Sync also includes your trash. How many records are in your trash? You probably want to empty your trash folder. If you have many records in the trash (and you the FireFox version of Zotero), it can take a very long time to complete the process. Firefox will be unavailable until the trash is empty. I don't remember ever emptying the trash from the ZSA. I cannot address the deletion time from the stand alone.
  • adamsmith
    ("Trash" here refers to the Zotero trash at the bottom of the left panel in Zotero - not the system trash).
  • dstillman
    Your queued upload is now 27MB, up from 10MB. So it's much worse now. I'm not sure what exactly you're doing, but do you recognize that you have 41K items currently in your personal library, and that you're now attempting to upload another very large number of items, also to your personal library?

    Note that Zotero currently syncs all libraries at once, so this isn't just about your group library. From the looks of it, much of the uploaded data is in your personal library.
  • NoroCORE
    Hello Mr. Stillman. I found ONLY PART of the problem, there were 15,000 citations in a different section of my library that I was not aware of (I had a LOT of trouble getting things imported from EndNote, so it probably happened in that process). They did not have the pdfs as far as I can tell.

    I DO NOT KNOW where the 41K is coming from though, because ALL I can see in my library is the 15K, which I have now deleted (and emptied trash again). In my group library there are only 460 items. This still does not add up to 41K.

    Also, my Trash is empty. So EMPTY that the EMPTY option was grayed out.

    All that I was aware I was syncing was the 460 items in the group folder, because I unchecked the syncing for my library attachments and did not think the citations were there/took up so much space. SO that is my mistake, but I am still confused because it should only have been citations that were in my personal library, and NONE of this adds up to 41K.

    SO now that I have very carefully checked what is where, and deleted everything I do not want, can we please clean out anything queued.

    ALSO, and most importantly, clearly I am not understanding something about how this syncing process works, and I really must get this up and running, so if there is a way to contact you more directly, such as email or phone, so we can troubleshoot this without 7 hour gaps in between, that would really be appreciated. I'm trying to get this together for a deadline in early November during which I hoped to promote Zotero as a great option to our 18 collaborative institutions (including academica and government).
  • NoroCORE
    Let me add- I trashed those extraneous items. But it doesn't want to empty the trash now. Not even a single item at a time.

    Best question I've had yet- DO YOU HAVE A WAY TO DELETE EVERYTHING STORED IN THE LIBRARIES. I have it all backed up, you have my complete permission to empty it out, I'd like to just start from scratch if that's possible. Maybe that will get rid of whatever mysterious mess is going on. Thank you
  • dstillman
    All-caps is seen as shouting—please don't do that.
    I DO NOT KNOW where the 41K is coming from though
    I provided instructions above to count how many items you have, including child items. You need to check in the root of "My Library", not in a collection.
    But it doesn't want to empty the trash now. Not even a single item at a time.
    What does that mean? It would quite likely freeze, but it should finish if you let it go.
    Best question I've had yet- DO YOU HAVE A WAY TO DELETE EVERYTHING STORED IN THE LIBRARIES.
    If I clear your upload, you can do a Restore to Zotero Server from the Sync->Reset pane of the Zotero preferences. But you need to make absolutely sure that you've cleared all the extraneous items from the root of "My Library" before you do that.
  • dstillman
    And just to be clear, none of this has anything to do with Zotero File Storage or those checkboxes in the Sync pane, which are about file syncing. This is just syncing of the library data itself.
  • NoroCORE
    It was not intended as shouting, it was intended to highlight the main points; my apologies for any miscommunication.

    However, I still need to know how to resolve the following:

    1) I followed those instructions for counting items that you linked to ("check for yourself"). That is the origin of the figure of 15k for my library at the time I checked that. The trash was empty. I have since moved those 15k to the trash. Which still does not add up to 41K. However, now the trash says 68K and I cannot empty it, see #2. At this point, I really do not need the numbers reconciled, I just need to clear out what's there. I have everything backed up and can start from scratch.

    2) What I mean per the trash itself- the program will not empty the trash. It does not just freeze, it stays frozen for hours. I had to force quit the program. I am restarting the trash emptying again though and will leave it running overnight.

    3) However, if that trash emptying still does not work, is there a way that you, on the admin end, can empty all contents of the account's library, including the trash? If so, you have my permission and request to do so.

    4) Because, from my understanding, I cannot move forward with clearing extraneous items until I can get the trash to work, so therefore cannot move forward with the reset?

    5) Please do go ahead and clear all uploads.

    6) To clarify for our purposes: the database we ideally hope to create within Zotero will be 2,500 journal articles and growing. Each article will have an associated PDF and many have between 1-5 notes. So assuming a max of 7 items per entry, that is 17,500 items and growing. Is that too big for Zotero to handle, or will that be ok once the current "clog" of files is cleared out?

    7) Once the extra files are clear and I start entering what I want, how many items can I import to the group library at a time so as to avoid stalling the sync- did the 500 you mention refer to total, as in citation, notes, and PDFS? Or to 500 entries (which each come with at least 1 attachment)?

    Thank you for the assistance.
  • dstillman
    For 68K items, emptying the trash could be extremely slow. Rather than emptying the trash all at once and trying to wait overnight, you can select batches of items in the trash and delete them permanently from there.
    Please do go ahead and clear all uploads.
    You should disable auto-sync before I do that. Once the trash is empty on your end and I've cleared the upload, you can do the Restore to Server.
    Once the extra files are clear and I start entering what I want, how many items can I import to the group library at a time so as to avoid stalling the sync
    There's no hard and fast number. 500-1000 top-level items at a time should be perfectly fine.
  • NoroCORE
    I will check it in the morning. If it has not emptied, I will do it in batches. In that case, to make sure I understand, I will be highlighting batches within the trash and right-click delete from the trash?

    I believe I already have auto sync turned off (and have had through most of this), but I will check that in the AM.

    When I have everything cleaned out, and have checked the sync, I will post that it is ready for you to clear the uploads.

    Thank you.
  • dstillman
    edited October 25, 2012
    In that case, to make sure I understand, I will be highlighting batches within the trash and right-click delete from the trash?
    Delete/Backspace, not right-click. (There should probably be a menu option for "Delete from Trash" or "Delete Permanently", but currently there's only a "Restore to Library" option in the context menu, so you have to delete via the keyboard.)
    When I have everything cleaned out, and have checked the sync, I will post that it is ready for you to clear the uploads.
    Sounds good.
  • NoroCORE
    I have another question, to make sure I do this right before you clear the upload.

    I have My Library on the Zotero application I access on my computer. Currently the only thing in it is the trash that needs emptying, as discussed.

    There's also My lIbrary when I access it from zotero.org, this is the server version yes? In this one, there are 9,000ish items still in My Library, and only a few in the trash.

    To clarify- I need to clean out the one on my computer that has the super full trash? Then I do reset with Restore to Server (so I want the server to have what I see on my computer, which at that point will be nothing/all empty)?

    Do I also need to clean out what I can see when I access it at zotero.org? Or is that what you can clear out from your end? If I do need to, it will be a problem because it takes ages to delete even one or two items in there.

    Just making sure I "clean up" the right things before you clear out the upload.

    Thank you again for all of your help.
  • dstillman
    zotero.org is the server version. When you sync, that gets updated.
  • NoroCORE
    Ok.

    Everything on my local Zotero is cleared out. Both My Library and things in Group Library are all deleted, and each trash has been emptied. As far as I can tell, it is all clear now.

    In Sync preferences I unchecked "Sync automatically." All that remains checked in those preferences is "Sync attachments files in group libraries using Zotero storage." But my group libraries are empty at the moment too, so nothing should try to sync from there yet.

    If this is everything needed for you to clear the upload, then you can please go ahead.

    To confirm, once you have done that, I will go into Sync preferences, to Reset, and click "Restore to Zotero Server" so as to erase what's in the server libraries to replace it with the empty/cleaned out version that's here on my computer. Is that correct?

    Thank you for your help!
  • dstillman
    I've cleared your upload.
    To confirm, once you have done that, I will go into Sync preferences, to Reset, and click "Restore to Zotero Server"
    Yes.
  • NoroCORE
    Thank you!
  • NoroCORE
    Related question- I am now moving the library into the group library bit by bit. I import, move what I want in smallish pieces to the group folder, then delete from my library and empty trash. So everytime I sync, it's only syncing that group library. Everytime I sync, though, is it going to try to sync ALL items (even the ones already there)? Will this cause issues?

    For example, the first 50 or so that I moved synced quickly. Each chunk after is resulting in much longer syncing times. Will this be a problem when, say, I get to the 1000th citation etc?

    Thanks much!

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