I think it would be good if zotero would have 1 more field for custom numbering. With this one can make logical order in the folders. Not just listing by title etc. but listing by custom number.
Yeah now I see your point, but what I think is just only a new field like the one which is counting the attachment, but this field could be modified by the user and it would only accept numbers.... Soo it doesn't really would track the order, just having a new field. Maybe it wouldn have to bee exportable so you can exclude the problems with formats...
It's not just a question of adding a new item field—the order is a property of the item's association with a collection, not the item itself.
But as I say on that other thread, the field already exists in the data layer. It's just a question of actually handling it in all the places it would have to be handled for it to be useful (items list, reports, etc.). And, while you're right that it wouldn't have to be exportable for most of the export formats, I'm pretty sure people would expect the order to be preserved when exporting and importing a collection as Zotero RDF.
I think I don't understand why the order should be the "property of the item's association with a collection, not the item itself". Since it's just a question of listing... Now I can list my references in alphabetical order (by title, author etc.) and by date. After that I would be able to list it by the custom number... that's all... In my opinion It's nothing to do with the collection...
doesn't matter(Title alphabetical order or date etc.)... you give a new number if you want... It's absolutely impossible to give an absolute order to your references since you can change the logic at any time during researching a new idea, or going into a new direction.... And BTW probably I'm moving my reference to a new collection 'coz I'm writing a new paper or working out a new plan, so anyhow I will probably change the order...
doesn't matter(Title alphabetical order or date etc.)...
Unlike title and date fields, an order field has no purpose except to sort items. If you sort by that, you're doing it to sort the items in a particular order. No other item field should have any effect.
you give a new number if you want...
And then manually edit all the items with higher numbers, or do so until the title or date of two items with the same number just happen to align such that I get the order I want?
And BTW probably I'm moving my reference to a new collection 'coz I'm writing a new paper or working out a new plan, so anyhow I will probably change the order
What if someone has a bibliography they give to students every semester? What if I'm working on two projects at once? Should I need to go back and manually set the order every single time I want to revisit a collection? There's no reason changing the order of items in one collection should affect the order of items in all others.
I think your basic premise is a little off here. This isn't done with user-entered numbers, and certainly not global ones. You drag items around into the order you want, and that automatically adjusts the order number of the dragged item and all other items in the collection. The order has no effect on other collections. This already happens behind-the-scenes in Zotero, though dragging into an order isn't yet supported.
Take a look at iTunes playlists here for the parallel—it's the exact same idea. The main library has no order field; only playlists do. In playlists, you drag songs around into the order you want, and this automatically adjusts the number field, which you can sort by if you want. If you arrange songs into a particular order in one playlist, it doesn't affect the order in another, so you can always return to a playlist and burn the same CD.
"This already happens behind-the-scenes in Zotero, though dragging into an order isn't yet supported."
This I did not know :D
The scene what you have described would be absolutely perfect for me (although I do not have an iPod and I'm not using iTunes, i think I've understood what you've meant) The same what I was thinking of, just I thought it would be easier to give custom numbers. I really like the idea to handle the collections like playlist athough I do not know if I change the listing to alphabetical order how can it be changed back to a custom order...
I do not know if I change the listing to alphabetical order how can it be changed back to a custom order...
You just click a different column. There can still be a number column—the numbers are just set automatically based on dragging, and if you click a different column, the numbers temporarily display out of order. See an iTunes screenshot.
Just thought I'd add my support to this feature request. Playlist-type dragging would be nice, but I think that custom fields would be preferable.
As for conflicts when merging databases, I have to agree with Con_Sole. Entries with the same author get sorted by a secondary field (i.e. date or paper title), so entries with the same custom field can be treated the same. If I found that I had two entries with the same custom field after a merge, then I would just change one to keep my 'system' intact. Hence the beauty of 'custom' fields.
Note: By system I mean that I keep a folder of PDF files on my flashdrive so that I can access them as needed without loading firefox and zotero. I number these PDFs incrementally as I collect them, so I can find them easily later. I would love this number to be linked to zotero somehow.
jgostick: Just to be clear, these are separate requests. Zotero items may eventually get custom field support, which you could use for this purpose. (Zotero items might also get a citation key field that you could use.) Those might be sortable, but that's not the same as collection-based ordering, for which a user-maintained field isn't a good solution.
Upgrade Storage
http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/33/
http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/694/
But as I say on that other thread, the field already exists in the data layer. It's just a question of actually handling it in all the places it would have to be handled for it to be useful (items list, reports, etc.). And, while you're right that it wouldn't have to be exportable for most of the export formats, I'm pretty sure people would expect the order to be preserved when exporting and importing a collection as Zotero RDF.
What if I'm working on two projects at once? Should I need to go back and manually set the order every single time I want to revisit a collection? There's no reason changing the order of items in one collection should affect the order of items in all others.
I think your basic premise is a little off here. This isn't done with user-entered numbers, and certainly not global ones. You drag items around into the order you want, and that automatically adjusts the order number of the dragged item and all other items in the collection. The order has no effect on other collections. This already happens behind-the-scenes in Zotero, though dragging into an order isn't yet supported.
Take a look at iTunes playlists here for the parallel—it's the exact same idea. The main library has no order field; only playlists do. In playlists, you drag songs around into the order you want, and this automatically adjusts the number field, which you can sort by if you want. If you arrange songs into a particular order in one playlist, it doesn't affect the order in another, so you can always return to a playlist and burn the same CD.
This I did not know :D
The scene what you have described would be absolutely perfect for me (although I do not have an iPod and I'm not using iTunes, i think I've understood what you've meant) The same what I was thinking of, just I thought it would be easier to give custom numbers. I really like the idea to handle the collections like playlist athough I do not know if I change the listing to alphabetical order how can it be changed back to a custom order...
As for conflicts when merging databases, I have to agree with Con_Sole. Entries with the same author get sorted by a secondary field (i.e. date or paper title), so entries with the same custom field can be treated the same. If I found that I had two entries with the same custom field after a merge, then I would just change one to keep my 'system' intact. Hence the beauty of 'custom' fields.
Note: By system I mean that I keep a folder of PDF files on my flashdrive so that I can access them as needed without loading firefox and zotero. I number these PDFs incrementally as I collect them, so I can find them easily later. I would love this number to be linked to zotero somehow.