Getting started: sharing collections & first impressions

neaj
Hi there ... some first impressions, if you're interested.

I create new items from a bunch of things on the same site. Now I want to relate them.

At "My Library" I find that my items are all mixed up with existing items.
The only way to see them grouped together is to sort by time. Luckily I accessed them all at the same time. (Allow sorting by URL?)

I can only tag one item at a time??? Is no one actually using tags?

I create a new Collection, select all the new items, and drag them to the collection. Now I want to share the collection with a group.
It seems that I cannot do this. Finally I create a new group and drag the collection to the group.

At this point my items are showing up in My Library, the Collection, and in the Collection under the group.
When I add a note in My Library or the Collection, it shows up in both places, but not in the Group. When I add one in the Group, it shows up only there.
So a Collection is like a tag, but a group is like a copy?

Regards, and thanks for an essential tool. I'm looking for something to recommend to writer friends of mine, and hoping Zotero is the One.
  • Gracile
    Allow sorting by URL?
    Using a saved search is a better solution (through the magnifying glass icon, then choose URL contains etc). More sorting options in the middle pane will be added to the next (major?) release (I think 3.5, maybe before)
    I can only tag one item at a time??? Is no one actually using tags?
    "To assign a tag to multiple items at once, drag a selection of items from the center column onto a tag in the tag selector." (http://www.zotero.org/support/collections_and_tags#the_tag_selector)
  • neaj
    Hi Gracile, thank you kindly for your answers!
    I should have known there's some way to tag multiple items :-)
    How about removing a tag from multiple items (not all items)?
  • Gracile
    How about removing a tag from multiple items (not all items)?
    Not possible as far as I know.

    Collections are not folders. They're close to tags indeed: documentation.

    Groups: http://www.zotero.org/support/groups#interact_with_groups_through_the_zotero_client
  • fbennett
    The difference in behavior with groups is intended by the designers. The problem is that a user may not want to expose all attachments or other content on an item to a group, and to cover that possibility it is simpler to treat group items as copies. When groups were first implemented, there was discussion of the possibility of "mapping" changes across groups and across the Library/Group boundary for "cloned" items (can't find the link now, sorry). As far as I know that's still in the roadmap, perhaps for Zotero 3.5. But basically items are local to a group, and that's the why-for behind it.
  • neaj
    Discovered the github repo; raised some issues:

    - Feature request: Make tags hierarchical and make them power Collections
    https://github.com/zotero/zotero/issues/107
    - Feature request: allow deleting of tags from multiple items
    https://github.com/zotero/zotero/issues/108
    - Feature request: improve Advanced Search form
    https://github.com/zotero/zotero/issues/109

    Please pardon me for being abrupt and presumptuous. I'm stating the impressions
    of a newcomer before I'm used to things as they are. I do hope that's helpful.
  • neaj
    edited April 30, 2012
    @fbennet: Thanks for the explanation!

    Even more useful than mapping changes across groups would be keeping a clear overview of "cloned" items.

    I.e. I'm afraid of getting lost in a maze of items, all alike.

    E.g.

    • Some item

      • Note A

      • Note B

      • Local copy

      • GroupOfProfessors

        • # No Note A: it didn't exist yet when this item was copied

        • # No Note B: deleted since we don't want to share it here

        • Note C: share this formulation instead

        • Local copy


      • GroupOfFriends

        • Note A # unchanged since being copied into the group

        • Note B has been edited, diverging from the original

        • Local copy


  • fbennett
    Yes, research data is complex. All the more reason to step carefully.
  • Gracile
    edited April 30, 2012
    @jean:
    You should search through the forum first:
    1)"Make tags hierarchical and make them power Collections": it has been discussed in the past, search for "hierarchical tags": http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/79/

    (Edit: And: http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/7168?page=1#Item_16
    and here: http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/700/equivalence-of-collections-and-tags/
    and here: http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/4006/hierarchical-organization-of-tags/#Comment_17182 )

    2)I'm sure the devs would love to accept a patch for 2) "allow deleting of tags from multiple items".

    3) "improve Advanced Search form" is not completely true:
    Advanced search offers specialized criteria like "Court" but not common criteria like "Author".
    You can use "creator" (If you hover your mouse over "creator", you get the list of fields included) but, indeed, not "author" or "editor" exclusively.
  • adamsmith
    (as a general rule - please don't use github for feature requests, especially as a newcomer. Your feedback is welcome, but the way to go is to raise feature requests in the Feature Request section of the forum. Devs and more experienced community members will comment on your request - e.g. point out that something already exists, that they have no interest in implementing them etc. or they will create an appropriate ticket/issue. The issue tracker exclusively contains items that devs have already agreed are desirable)
  • neaj
    @Gracile: I searched the github tracker, but I should have searched the forum too.

    I've linked the discussions from the issue.
  • neaj
    @adamsmith eek, OK ..
  • adamsmith
    not meant to intimidate you or produce an eek - just pointing out the best way to get your feature requests heard and considered and the development process as clean and transparent as possible.
  • neaj
    @Gracile: you write: 'If you hover your mouse over "creator"'.

    I don't see hovering behaviour on the Advanced Search form. On the Info pane I get a dropdown which shows Author/Contributor/... depending on the item type.

    Perhaps this is due to my client: Zotero 3.0.3 under Firefox 11.0
  • dstillman
    edited April 30, 2012
    There's no hover on Creator, since it just searches all creator types. There's a hover on all the other base-mapped fields.
  • neaj
    Ah, now I see, e.g. on Title. You have to wait for a second before the popup shows up. I haven't encountered this UI behaviour before, so I didn't know where to expect it, and didn't happen to hover long enough on a mapped field before.
  • Gracile
    Sorry my mistake indeed, I had not access to zotero when I wrote.
  • Gracile
    About 2) "allow deleting of tags from multiple items".

    Dan wrote that the issue could be reopened "once there's an agreed-upon solution in the forums".

    Proposal:
    -At the moment, the tag selector allows tags to be globally renamed and deleted (right-click + “Rename Tag…”/“Delete Tag…”).
    -A third option could be added: “Delete Tag for the selected item(s)…”
    This option would be available only if the tag is selected (i.e. clicked) and one (or more) item is selected in the middle pane. A warning message could possibly indicate: "Are you sure you want to delete this tag in the three selected items? This tag will only be removed in these items."
  • dstillman
    I don't like that solution. The tag selector doesn't currently take the middle-pane selection into account in any way, and I don't think it makes sense for it to start doing so. I think Jean's suggestion on another thread—to include the Tags tab in the right pane when multiple items are selected, allowing batch tag adding and removal—would be a better approach, and would fit in with the batch editing functionality that we're already planning.
  • Gracile
    I had not seen Jean's suggestion but, indeed, with batch editing, it's a better one.
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