What is Zotero Supposed to do?

joshualevy
I'm experimenting with zotero, and I'm having trouble figuring out if I've not installed it properly, am hitting bugs, or it is just not designed to do what I want. I'm using 3.0 beta. So here are my questions:

1. I go to the wikipedia entry for "Titan (Moon) Atmosphere" and click on the Zotero icon. it saves a list of references from the article, but not the text of the article itself. I expected it to save the text of the article also, so I could annotate and tag that. This happens in both Firefox and Chrome/Standalone (on different machines).

But for other web pages, it does save the web page, just as I would want. Random example:
http://www.diabetesforums.com/forum/type-1-diabetes/47440-dr-faustman-and-cure.html

2. I try to save this page (a newsletter):
www.faustmanlab.org/docs/newsletters/Faustman_updates_f09.pdf
In Firefox this works as I expect, but Chrome/standalone doesn't. I look on this forum, and saw something about proxies (and the test link in the posting did work for me), but I don't understand why Chrome can display this just fine, and also if I "drag" the page's mini-icon from Chrome's window to standalone Zotero, then it does work. Why doesn't the zotero-button work?

3. I was hoping that if I highlight some text, I can save just that text as a note in Zotero. That does seem to work from Firefox, but not from Chrome/Standalone.

Thanks for any help. The install / configuration steps were not clear to me. I didn't realize I needed to set up an account at zotero.com for it to work, I didn't realize I needed to download PDF tools for that to work, etc. I'm a little worried there is something I forgot or didn't know about.

Joshua
  • adamsmith
    1. Wikipedia is an outlier. In all other cases I'm aware of, Zotero saves the page. For Wikipedia, you can still do that using righ-click --> Save Zotero Snapshot from Current Page
    There are pros and cons to this approach to Wikipedia depending on the article.
    2. This has nothing to do with proxies (those threads refer to saving pdf attachments from gated databases such as EBSCO or JSTOR). Dragging is the way to go. You only get a Zotero icon when Zotero detects data on a page. (This will likely be modified in some way in the future).

    3. That's correct, that's not currently possible in Chrome.

    Generally, Zotero for Firefox is, at least at this point, a better product. There is an advantage of hooking the tool right into the browser. Some of these issues will likely be addressed over time.

    You don't need a Zotero account for Zotero to work. You just need it if you want to sync your data. I'm also not sure what else wasn't clear - e.g. for the pdf tools, Zotero tells you exactly what to do.
  • joshualevy
    Thanks for your quick response. Here are my thoughts:

    I realized later, that I thought of Zotero as primarily a research tool, but others view it primarily as a citation tool. This led to various misunderstandings:
    First, I thought I should get mini-icon for every web page. After all, they all might be important to my research. However, I think that Zotero only gives that icon for pages that have citations, or something else that Zotero "understands".
    Second, when I didn't see the icon, I thought I needed a Zotero account to get it. I also messed around with the chrome plug in and other things to try to get it to "work".
    Third, that mini-icon is the only obvious new thing that you see in Chrome after installing the plug in. (I know there are menu changes, but they are not so obvious.) So having that icon bouncing in and out for different web pages (even of the same format: both htmml, etc.) makes Zotero look flaky if you don't understand what is happening. This isn't a bug, but it's a customer happiness and confidence issue.

    Another mistake I made was to start off with Chrome/Standalone. Years ago, I never would have started with a "beta", but Google (and other web companies) have betas that are very stable. I didn't realize that the Zotero beta really is a beta.

    Finally, about PDF: My memory is that I tried to index something, and got a error message, and was eventually able to figure out where in the properties tab to click the button to load the tools. (Once I clicked the button, it was perfectly smooth.) But it was not obvious, and (more importantly) it shouldn't have been needed at all. In my opinion, PDF is just a fundamental to the web as html. The tool should support PDF right out of the box with no changes at all.

    Joshua
  • dstillman
    edited January 31, 2012
    First, I thought I should get mini-icon for every web page. After all, they all might be important to my research. However, I think that Zotero only gives that icon for pages that have citations, or something else that Zotero "understands".
    It's a question of the quality of the data. When there's a decent chance of good quality metadata, you get the button. But you can always just save a copy of a webpage using Create New Item from Current Page. We feel it's important to distinguish the two (but there are many threads discussing this further).
    I didn't realize that the Zotero beta really is a beta.
    I don't know what you mean by that, but Zotero 3.0, including Standalone, is no longer in beta as of today. Bugs make something a beta, not reduced functionality vs. another product. But better documentation comparing the current functionality of the two versions (and better documentation for Zotero Standalone in general) is planned.
    Third, that mini-icon is the only obvious new thing that you see in Chrome after installing the plug in. (I know there are menu changes, but they are not so obvious.)
    The menu option will likely be moved to a dedicated button in a future version.
    My memory is that I tried to index something, and got a error message, and was eventually able to figure out where in the properties tab to click the button to load the tools.
    Here's the message: "To use this feature, you must first install the PDF tools in the Zotero preferences."

    The button in the dialog takes you directly to the Search pane, where you can click a button to install the tools. We could probably install the tools automatically (they're platform-specific, which is why they're not bundled), but that dialog does seem pretty clear.
  • joshualevy
    Except that there is no "Zotero preferences" in the standalone versions. Imagine you just got that message from chrome. What do you do? Well, maybe you find the Zotero Chrome plug in. But there is no preferences there. But there is an "options" link. Same thing? Nope. If you look there you don't find it. So go over to the standalone Zotero application. Anything says "preferences" there? Nope. But there is "Tools" and that is usually where preferences is. So go there. Any "preferences" under tools? Nope. But there is an options pane. That doesn't have "preferences" either, but if you carefully check each pane, you will eventually find it.

    I don't think that's clear at all (for chrome/standalone users).

    Joshua
  • adamsmith
    Imagine you just got that message from chrome.
    I don't see how you could get that message from Chrome. All operations I know of that would trigger this would be in Zotero Standalone. Am I missing something?

    Then, as Dan said:
    The button in the dialog takes you directly to the Search pane, where you can click a button to install the tools.
    that didn't work? That's really the key that's supposed to make this easy: You click one button and Zotero automatically takes you to the right place. No need to look for it.

    Also, the preferences in Zotero standalone are in the same place as in regular Zotero
    http://www.zotero.org/support/preferences
    To access the Zotero preference window (...) click the actions menu button (the 'gear' icon) at the top of the left column and select the “Preferences…” option
  • dstillman
    Works for me in Standalone. You don't even have to click anything in the prefs—the dialog button both opens the prefs and starts the installation for you.
  • mikepruzan
    My experience has been an un-intuitive one, like joshualevy's experience. I'm completely new to Zotero, just got the FF add-on installed and tried to export a citation via my link resolver, only to see the message that the PDF tools need to be installed.

    Click OK and nothing happens, i'm not taken anywhere. Finally find the PDF area in Zotero Preferences, and the automated "Check for installer" doesn't do anything. Haven't had time to pursue the manual install option.
  • dstillman
    If something's not working, you need to provide a Report ID after triggering it.
  • mikepruzan
    Forgot to say thanks Dan - I'd been intending to upgrade to Firefox 11, so I figured I'd do so and then try again with Zotero. I think FF 11 was the answer... all went well with Zotero.
  • aplatypus
    hi gang ...

    I have to agree with all the comments that bespeak the use of "pdf tools" is obscure in the user interface (Firefox plug-in version).

    For example; after triple-reading of the responses above and there are a multitude, I unravelled the cryptic references to the "Zotero OPTIONS" dialogue (not "preferences").

    The PDF tools information is on the "Search" tab and that information is NOT present in the download hint.

    Finally there's nothing on this version that actually says "PDF Tools" and when one searches for "PDF Tools" in the help and forums, I've seen a lot of messages telling people "it is so easy ..." (paraphrased).

    On the Search tab in Options is a comment about "PDF Indexing". We need "utilities from the Xpdf project." (direct quote). No wonder people were/are and will continue to be confused. I can see how something like this happens as a business analyst -- There's a need for human factors skills on the team.

    On the support and forum side of things. The wordy exchanges are not helpful. What's needed is a simple explanation for HOW TO do install the tools. Something like the stuff I just quoted.

    1. Go to Options of Preferences (I accept
    it may be called preferences in different
    places).
    2. Find the "Check for installer" button.
    3. Click "Check for installer".
    4. Click on the "OK" button when the installer
    finds the right download.

    It is probably helpful to explain to folk that the so called "PDF Tools" are available on a different license and you need to install them for legal reasons.

    Hope that helps the next person!

    Otherwise the Zotero tool is a boon to sensemaking kind and students everyplace.

    :-)
  • aplatypus
    Hi again,

    One further discovery -- the Install now button only looks for a 32-bit version. 64-bit users will need to go the manual route. (Me too).

    Cheers,
    w.
  • adamsmith
    edited July 8, 2012
    To clarify why this is "wordy" -

    1. if you need instructions on how to get to the search pane in the preferences, something isn't working correctly.
    The first time you do something that requires the pdftools, Zotero should pop up a message with an "install" button. If you click that button Zotero will automatically open up the search tab and installs the tools for you. If that's not the case, something isn't working correctly and we want to know why. The whole point is that people shouldn't have to read instructions.

    2. As for the type of instructions we gave here: the user in this thread didn't ask for directions on how to install the pdf tools - else we would have given him something along the lines of what you describe. By the time he posted he had already installed the tools and was providing feedback on something he found confusing.

    Finally, "people" aren't confused about this. This thread is half a year old and is the last time someone even asked about this (after doing it successfully...), which to me indicates pretty clearly that the current way this works is just fine. If you have specific UI suggestions I'm sure Dan would be happy to hear them, but I can't really make out what you're actually suggesting.
  • Fortigurn
    edited July 21, 2012
    Using Waterfox x64, I have this experience.

    1. 'To use this feature, you must first install the PDF tools in the Zotero preferences'.

    <click 'Open Preferences'>

    2. [JavaScript Application] 'The Xpdf utilities are not currently available for your platform via zotero.org. View the documentation for manual installation instructions.'

    3. I check the documentation at http://www.zotero.org/support/pdf_fulltext_indexing. It tells me I can place the binaries directly in the Zotero data directory, or link to them from there. I download the x64 binaries.

    4. Assuming the 'Zotero data directory' is 'zotero@chnm.gmu.edu' in my Waterfox profile, I put the binaries there, adding the extension '-Win64.exe' to each binary.

    5. Restarting Waterfox, I now try to 'Retrieve Metadata for PDF'. I receive the error same messages as I did in steps 1 and 2.
  • adamsmith
    start a new thread please. This has moved too far from the original post to still be useful here. It sounds as if you have the wrong data folder though:
    http://www.zotero.org/support/zotero_data
This discussion has been closed.