separate first-name of last-name

abedini_ma
Hi
I need to separate first-name of last-name In most styles it is not exists and the result is Stickd
example:
حساس یگانهیحیی. 1388. فلسفه حسابرسی. دوم. تهران: انتشارات علمی و فرهنگی.
need to be:
حساس یگانه یحیی. 1388. فلسفه حسابرسی. دوم. تهران: انتشارات علمی و فرهنگی.
  • adamsmith
    Zotero certainly puts a space between first and last names - this may be a font or a data issues - hard to say, especially because I can't even read your example (something in Roman letters would be helpful).
    If you have a style that has Lastname, Firstname you can also specify the delimiter (i.e. it doesn't have a comma).
    What you can't do it specify a delimiter between Firstname and Lastname if they're in that order.
  • abedini_ma
    thank you
    that is in persian.
    I've experimented with different fonts! but it didn't work.
    is there any style that separated first-name of last-name whit any other characters?
  • fbennett
    edited December 25, 2011
    By "first-name of last-name", do you mean the first word in the "Last Name" field? Or do you mean the space between the "First Name" and "Last Name" fields?

    If the latter, this can be fixed if you provide us with some guidance. Currently, the processor suppresses the space between the two name parts (and forces sort-ordering -- "Last Name"+"First Name") if the fields contain "non-Byzantine" characters. A space is only inserted for Latin and Cyrillic scripts. Persian is not (currently) recognized as a "Byzantine" character set in the processor, so it will be treated in the same way as (say) Japanese or Chinese.

    (Edit: fixed description of non-Byzantine behavior, which was incorrect in the original post.)

    Like adamsmith, I can't read Persian script, but if you can provide some information about how names should be handled in Persian, this can be corrected in the processor. If you can post an example with the following details (in Persian script), it will be very helpful:

    Last Name field: XXX
    First Name field: XXX

    Short form (Last Name only): XXX
    Long form (in the order used in ordinary text): XXX
    Sort form (with the name to sort by in first position): XXX

    (Also, please let us know whether abbreviations are ever used in Persian publishing -- implementing abbreviations for an alternative script would take some doing, but if it's necessary, let me know and I'll put it on the do-list.)
  • abedini_ma
    thank you fbennett
    In Persian it is not necessary (even incorrect) to use abbreviated form of names (in both lastname and firstname)
    about my problem, I see in bibliography lastnamefirstname but it should be lastname firstname (with space between)
  • fbennett
    Would including the space be correct in all cases, in Persian typography?
  • abedini_ma
    @fbennett
    what do you mean of "all cases"?
  • arggem
    I'm not fbennett, but I'm pretty sure "all cases" would mean "in every instance," "all the time," or "without exception."

    It is not referring to grammatical cases.

    Fbennett can correct me if I'm wrong.
  • fbennett
    For latin and Cyrillic names, we can safely assume that it is always correct to put a space between the first name and last name when printed in that order. That is, "Frank Bennett" is always correct, and "FrankBennett" is never correct. So no special settings are required; we just always put a space between the two name parts when they are printed in that order.

    These may be silly questions, but as I don't know Persian myself, I need to ask. There are actually three questions, now that I think of it:

    (1) In Persian, do you ever print names in "First (given) Name / Last (family) Name" order?

    (2) In Persian, when printing names in "Last (family) Name / First (given) Name" order (as you have requested), is it safe to assume that it will never be necessary to print the names without a space between them?

    (3) If the answer to (1) is "yes", is it safe to assume that names in "First (given) Name / Last (family) Name" order will always be separated by a single space?
  • abedini_ma
    thank you arggem, don't be sad!
    Dear fbennett
    1) yes, we can use that order too.
    2,3) we use APA or Harvard; Vancouver and .... Styles
    for example
    http://upload.tuningtalk.com/upload/APA.pdf
    thank you
  • fbennett
    edited December 26, 2011
    Great. It looks like it will be sufficient to treat Persian names in the same way as names written in latin script or Cyrillic. That way, you can set name-as-sort-order="true", and set sort-separator=" ", and you can also get names in the other order if desired.

    We need to confirm that this will not adversely affect other languages, though. This document seems to provide sound information about the Persian script and language:

    http://behdad.org/download/Publications/persiancomputing/a007.pdf

    Apparently Persian script shares many characters with the Arabic languages, although the underlying language is quite different from Arabic. If our preferred solution is to treat any Persian-script names in the same way as Latin names, this may also affect names in Arabic sources. So before making a fix, I need to explore how names are handled in Arabic. So:
    When an Arabic name is typeset, is there always a space between the name elements?
    (The document linked above also refers to Tajik as another language that may be written in Arabic script. Avram may be able to provide some background on that front.)
  • abedini_ma
    thank you
    but sorry it didn't work!
  • fbennett
    Please read my message again carefully. I haven't suggested that you do anything; I'm asking for information, so that I can fix the system to work as you require.
  • abedini_ma
    edited December 27, 2011
    I don't know about Arabic! but I think is in the same mode as Persian
  • fbennett
    Sorry for the long delay over this. I've added the Unicode ranges for Arabic and Persian to the "roman-like" test function of in the processor. In the next release, a space should be inserted between the elements of names written in Persian script.
  • abedini_ma
    Dear fbennett
    Thank you very much
    I hope next release be available as soon
  • abedini_ma
    Dear Fbennett
    Thank you, It works!
    I will check it deeply!!
  • fbennett
    That's great to hear, thanks for reporting. If you find other issues relating to Persian support, let us know.
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