Syncing and networked computers

I'm a long-time user of zotero, but have yet to set up any form of sync since it has become available. I'd like to understand how it would affect my current set-up before I risk messing with my ~2000 articles and attachments I'm depending on for my ongoing dissertation :-). At the moment, I have my zotero library housed on my desktop computer, and I access it on my laptop periodically via my home network (I switch between the computers while I'm working because I can't sit at my desk for too long thanks to back problems). Zotero on my laptop points across my network to the zotero folder on my desktop, and I just make sure that I only have one location open at a single point in time. Also, I have my laptop make the entire zotero folder "available offline", so it keeps a cached copy of the folder in sync for those occasions when I need to use my library away from my home network. This has worked pretty well for me for a few years now.

I'm interested in the sync feature now though, primarily due to the apps that are available for smartphones- the idea of adding books by scanning barcodes sounds like a real time-saver, but it appears I'd need to have sync set up.

So I'm wondering- if I set up just my desktop to sync with the zotero server (metadata, not file storage), and leave the rest of my system as is, will everything continue to work as usual? Or will my desktop syncing somehow interfere with my ability to access the entire library across my network? Will I then HAVE to set up my laptop to sync as well, and therefore need to find an alternative solution for keeping my attachments in sync?

Sorry for the long post, but I would appreciate any thoughts and advice!
Thanks.
  • So I'm wondering- if I set up just my desktop to sync with the zotero server (metadata, not file storage), and leave the rest of my system as is, will everything continue to work as usual?
    yes.

    As an aside, you seem happy with your set-up, so by all means keep using it, but you should be aware that what you're doing really is risky. Having two computers point to the same Zotero folder has a high risk of corrupting your database if you ever, by accident, have Zotero open in both locations. If this happens it may be unfixable and you're on your own. Given Murphy's law, this is prone to happen about 12hs before an important deadline. It's up to you, but don't say you haven't been warned.
  • edited November 15, 2011
    Also, adding syncing to your current setup would mean that you have an additional, near real-time backup on top of whatever current backup regime you are employing. This might be particularly relevant in your situation, which - as adamsmith points out - is particularly risk prone (particularly when used together with Offline Files, which sometimes lags substantially with syncing changes back).

    Edit: If you allow me to add a plug here - since you point out that you don't intend to be using zotero sync for your attachment sync I assume that the reason for that might be that you have a specific concern with syncing to the filespace at zotero.org. If this is the case and you are otherwise interested in attachment storage (if only for backup purposes, or to enable using sync to keep your laptop and desktop synced) you could use my free and very easy to install and use phpZoteroWebDAV script that enables the use of any php enabled webserver you might have access to (or feel sufficiently inclined to set up) to use as a storage sync destination as well as library and attachment viewer (e.g. for when you are away from both computers).
  • Thanks for your responses, I really appreciate the advice! My main reason for not setting up any sync at this point is primarily the possibility of endlessly fighting with sync errors- because of my back, I can't spend a lot of time at my computer as it is, so having to spend time just getting things to work can be a real (literal) pain! Most of my zotero items have attachments, and they are all stored within the zotero folder (ie. not as links), so the threat of somehow losing the organization of all of it is a serious one. And I need to have access to the attachments on both my computers, since often my reason for switching machines is so I can lay down and read through some of the articles, etc.

    I'm contemplating setting up sync- and maybe just finding the money somehow to go with zotero's storage if that is the least likely to cause problems and lead to hours of troubleshooting. I have checked out the php script you referred to, but I don't think I have access to any useful space (my Uni allotment is too small for my library, which is nearing 2GB).

    I guess I'm just not sure how it would all work in practice (even with zotero storage). Would the end experience of accessing my files through Firefox be the same as it is now? Can I still edit pdfs using an external viewer (for annotations and highlights)? Maybe these are obvious questions, but it's the simple things that are holding me back and mean I keep defaulting to what has been working up to now....
  • Setting up sync would not at all change the way you use zotero locally. Zotero will continue to store local copies of attachments in the same way as it has always been doing it and it will continue to use a local sqlite database to store your library.

    The only thing that sync does is to upload any changes that you make to these local (or networked in your case) copies to the cloud and then download them on any computers that are not in sync (if you don't change your setup this would never happen since both computers access the same copy, unless you use a third party app to add items to your online library).

    So yes, you can still access your files the same as you do now through your FF extension, you can continue to view or edit pdfs (or any attachment, really) with external programs.


    P.S. on a side note, I have just tested one of the smartphone apps (BibUp) for scanning barcodes and it turns out that you do not have to use sync to use it.
  • Would the end experience of accessing my files through Firefox be the same as it is now?
    yes, once everything is synced.
    Can I still edit pdfs using an external viewer (for annotations and highlights)?
    Yes, as long as the viewer you're using writes the annotations to the pdf file (most viewers, including preview, Foxit, PdfXchange, and Adobe Pro do)

    For 95%+ of all users, sync just works. _If_ there are problems, they are usually in data syncing, so you can just test that without paying for storage.
  • @krueschan: on BibUp, I've got an Android, so I'd be looking at the other app (Scanner for Zotero), and it appears to add to one's library on zotero's servers- I haven't been able to find any documentation that suggests the possibility of doing otherwise, at least.

    At this point, I'm strongly leaning towards just setting up Zotero storage. My system has worked fine for me so far, but I've only been using my two computers. If I'm going to set up at the very least the data sync, and start accessing the library with my phone, then I'm adding more variables to the mix- and I'm likely on borrowed time at this point as it is, given the probability of something going wrong with the way I'm set up over my network. Given the amount of time and energy this silly PhD has taken so far, to have a ton of work become inaccessible via a corrupted database, all for the savings of $5 a month... from that perspective it seems a little ridiculous :-)

    So my next questions become: Are all files that are stored in the zotero library (i.e. not linked) synced via file sync (i.e. regardless of type, pdf, docx, ppt, audio, etc.)? Are linked files referenced somehow, even if they are not accessible (so you could see you had a copy of a particular item, even if it was too large to store itself in zotero- e.g. an encrypted ebook)? Lastly, does the sync process work best if you do it all at once- data & files together- or would it be best to do the data sync first to make sure there were no issues, then set up file sync? And I'm assuming that the best procedure is to set up everything on my desktop, get sync working, then set up my laptop to sync from an empty zotero library starting point (to avoid duplicates)?

    Thanks again for all your help!
  • Are all files that are stored in the zotero library (i.e. not linked) synced via file sync (i.e. regardless of type, pdf, docx, ppt, audio, etc.)?
    yes.
    Lastly, does the sync process work best if you do it all at once- data & files together- or would it be best to do the data sync first to make sure there were no issues, then set up file sync?
    doesn't matter. Doing data sync first has the small advantage that, if you're going to encounter problems, you'll encounter them before you pay for storage, but as I say that's rather unlikely which brings this back to "doesn't matter".
    And I'm assuming that the best procedure is to set up everything on my desktop, get sync working, then set up my laptop to sync from an empty zotero library starting point (to avoid duplicates)?
    actually, no. If your laptop has a copy of your database, Zotero will recognize the items as the same and not duplicate them. So you'll save yourself some time if you start your Laptop with a copy of your database and attachments.

    On links and syncing I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure that yes, local links are shown.
  • edited November 15, 2011
    adamsmith wrote:
    actually, no. If your laptop has a copy of your database, Zotero will recognize the items as the same and not duplicate them. So you'll save yourself some time if you start your Laptop with a copy of your database and attachments.
    Let me just make absolutely clear that this "copy of database and attachments" would have to be a "real" local copy, as opposed to the remote network copy (made sort of local via Offline Files) you are currently using. Since you are currently using Offline files, this can be easily achieved by copying from your network path to another location on your laptop hard drive. Once sync is set up you can then reclaim the space taken up by your zotero database Offline Files storage on your laptop HDD.

    MiscBec wrote:
    Are linked files referenced somehow, even if they are not accessible (so you could see you had a copy of a particular item, even if it was too large to store itself in zotero- e.g. an encrypted ebook)?
    I am pretty certain that they would - behind the scenes the zotero library creates an additional dedicated library item for each attachment which is then linked to its parent item by being dedicated as a child item of that parent. This child (attachment) library item is separate from the actual stored copy of the attachment file even though they are linked by sharing the same itemKey (the itemkey of the child item is the folder name of the attachment file in the storage folder) and since this child library item gets synced independent of what happens to the actual attachment file reference to it should be preserved. Anyway, I am getting carried away with details....
    What I did want to make sure you understand is this: the attachment sync is not selective. I.e. you cannot exclude individual items from the sync, for example on the account that they are large ebook files. It's just sync or don't sync. (although I think it should be possible to move the items you don't want to be synced to a group library as you can specify different sync settings for group libraries, but that comes with its own set of issues)

    The most important piece of information in this thread, however, warrants repeating:
    adamsmith wrote:
    For 95%+ of all users, sync just works.
  • Well, I've finished the data sync from my desktop without issue (hooray!), and am in the very slow process of uploading my ~2GB of attachments to my newly purchased zotero storage space. Question: It is taking a long time to upload, and I'm wondering what will happen if I need to stop it before it is complete. I'd like to stop it for a few hours this evening to use my bandwidth other things (my computer also doubles as my TV for example, and I'm not sure how streaming and syncing simultaneously would work :-)), and then resume it to complete overnight. If I do that, will the sync just pick up where it left off? Or am I better just to leave it plugging slowly away at least until it completes the initial sync?
    Thanks!
  • You can stop the file sync. Zotero should resume right where it left off.
  • And to add another note of comfort: I've written a full dissertation working with a 6000+ item library synced across four computers, with 10Gb of Zotero File Storage for my attachments. Over a period of two years of syncing (starting with the alpha and beta versions) I've never had any problems with corrupted data or attachments. In general, sync works smoothly and it is great to know that a copy of everything is available in the cloud.
  • Well, I set up the storage and synced both my desktop and laptop without issue! There were about a dozen conflicts with the first sync (only a few of which I could actually see any reason for), but otherwise, it all worked perfectly :-) Thanks to everyone for all the advice and support- I'm on to experiment with the apps!
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