Persée.fr -- Does Zotero work at this important site?

nestorburma
I note that Persée is listed on the Zotero compatible sites, but when I go there in Firefox 3, I do not get the Zotero icon in my address line. I get the "white star" (bookmark this page) but no helpful button to import a reference into my Zotero database.

Is there a problem here with Zotero--or is it me and/or firefox? it would be great to get this working as Persée is apparently the only place that has an electronic edition of Annales, the French history journal...

Here is the URL of Persée: http://www.persee.fr


Thanks!
  • sean
    edited June 27, 2008
    Persée is not on the list of Zotero compatible sites. Perhaps you are confusing that list with the list of open translator requests. Support for Persée would be great, but it doesn't appear that the site provides any structured metadata or export format for citations. Is that assessment correct?
  • nestorburma
    Hi Sean,
    Yes, I obviously got confused about the list I was looking at.

    I am not savvy enough to know how to identify "structured metadata" when I see it, but if you go to an article on Persée, the citation material is there, and there is even a little button (one of three red buttons below the author's name) that generates a popup window with a citation and a permanent url for the article. I take it that this information has to be in a particular format for Zotero to recognize it as such, otherwise it would be working...

    here is a sample article URL:
    http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/rfsp_0035-2950_1962_num_12_1_403366

    In any case, it would be great if Zotero could translate from this site--it's a great resource for me and presumably for others..

    Thanks
  • Tjowens
    The citation in the pop up is sadly not enough. By structured metadata we mean that the bibliographic information is clearly identified in a consistent fashion. When there is just a plain text citation it is not possible for Zotero to know which part is the author, the series number etc.

    Most databases of this sort allow their users to export in RIS, a common exchange format for bibliographic information. If you want Persée you should lobby them to add this feature.
  • Acrymble
    I've submitted an translator for Persee. Just took some creativity. Michael should have it; not sure if it's been made available to the public yet or not.
  • bruno morandiere
    Hello,

    The Persée website can now export its bibliographics informations using structured metadatas and Z3988 format.
    The current translator for Persée does not benefit from those improvements and we would like you to disable the translator in the upcoming releases.
    Thanks!

    Best regards
  • sean
    Where is the structured metadata? I don't see any links on the website within individual articles or in search results.
  • bruno morandiere
    for example in article :
    http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/comm_0588-8018_1990_num_52_1_1786?_Prescripts_Search_isPortletOuvrage=false
    there is a span like this :
    <span class="Z3988" style="visibility:hidden" title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Focoins.info%3Agenerator&rft.genre=revue&rft.atitle=Le syndrome de rumeur+&rft.title=Communications&rft.stitle=comm&rft.issn=0588-8018&rft.date=1990&rft.volume=52&rft.issue=1&rft.spage=119&rft.epage=123& rft.pages=pp. 119-123&rft.au=Michel-Louis Rouquette&rft_id=&rft_id=http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/comm_0588-8018_1990_num_52_1_1786"/>

    and each article have such span

    Thanks
  • sean
    Thank you. I removed the Persée translator to allow the COinS translator to run. Could you please embed the Z3988 span elements in search results and tables of contents, too?
  • bruno morandiere
    We can embed easily Z988 span in table of contents, but the whole search results should be more difficult to export because of pagination of results.
  • noksagt
    If I might gripe a bit: You hide your COinS with CSS, which makes this useless to most clients other than Zotero. 'revue' is not an enumerated genre in the ANSI/NISO OpenUIRL spec. 'pages' is wholly redundant to 'spage' & 'epage' & shouldn't have a 'pp. ' in it. You also have an empty rft_id parameter. A further (all-too-common) mistake you make is that rfr_id SHOULD NOT BE the ocoins.info generator unless you actually use that to generate your COinS. You should create an rfr_id for your program. There may be other flaws in the markup, but those are the big ones.

    If you can paginate links to individual items, I can't imagine you wouldn't be able to paginate COinS as well.
  • bruno morandiere
    Thank you for these details.
    The span is hidden because we'll provide soon bibliographic information in many format such as Endnote or Refworks.
    Revue is a french copy-paste shame on us ;-)
    We'll remove redundant pages informations, the empty rft_id is due to no doi information, a test will be welcomed.
    I'll create an rfr_id.

    Thanks again.
  • noksagt
    The span is hidden because we'll provide soon bibliographic information in many format such as Endnote or Refworks.
    You don't have to hide the span to achieve this! By hiding COinS, other tools like LibX and OpenURL Referrer will not benefit from your use of these.

    Good luck with the fixes!
  • bruno morandiere
    Hi,
    the Persée's translator seems to be enabled with the last release, and our COinS data are skipped.
    Please can you remove this translator to allow the COinS translator to run.

    Thx
  • dstillman
    I assume you're referring to 1.0.10? The translator was marked for deletion via the repository on 4/24, which should have removed it from all clients, but we ended up having to release 1.0.10 on 4/28 with some Firefox 3.5 compatibility fixes, and that would've reinstalled it. I've now updated the date on the deleted translator in the repository, so it should be removed again for 1.0.10 users within a day.
  • bruno morandiere
    Thanks again
  • idcolvin
    Hi,
    I have just discovered this thread as I get "Could not save item an error occurred; EBSCOhost translator is broken" errors when trying to use Zotero with Persee.fr. I'm using Zotero 2.04b on an antique G3 OSX.4 PowerBook. Hoping that the site translator will be fixed soon as Persee.fr is a really important site.
    Thanks for all your efforts and thanks in advance for any further info you can provide/share as to when Zotero & Persee.fr may have this fixed.
    Ian

    PS Apologies if this is not the appropriate place to mention problems with 2.04b; please let me know if this would be better placed elsewhere.
  • dstillman
    edited June 3, 2009
    idcolvin: This isn't related to EBSCO. Persée should be working for you by now. If it's not, hover over the save icon in the address bar and let us know the translator name (Persée or COinS) in parentheses.
  • idcolvin
    Thanks, Dan, for your reply.

    I should apologise as I've just realised it is working better than I thought (though far from perfectly). I've discovered that despite the error that is returned, I do now have about ten entries for the item I was after in my library. So it is saving some basic citation info -- title and author, but it saves it as Web Page rather than as a journal article with all the relevant journal info -- and it is not saving the pdf. Presumably therefore, that is what is throwing up the error.

    Hovering over the save icon produces '(Embedded RDF)'. Is that part of the problem?
    Clicking on the icon produces the error message: 'Could not save item. An error occurred while saving this item. Check known translator issues for saving this item.' It was clicking on the link there that brought up the 'EBSCO host translator' message, and is the reason I did a search and ended up here.

    I've now downloaded and saved the pdf manually and added it as an attachment, but obviously there is quite a bit of work to be done manually, including changing the type to Journal Article, and adding in Publication, Volume, Issue, Pages and Date, all of which I'd have hoped might have been saved automatically.

    Thanks very much for any ideas you have -- or even if you are able to tell me that this is all you would expect it to do. Perhaps I am expecting too much, spoilt as I am by the behaviour of Zotero with JSTOR.

    All the best,
    Ian
  • dstillman
    The Embedded RDF translator currently causes an error ("this._IDMap is undefined") in 2.0b4 that prevents some metadata from being saved. We're looking into it.

    There also appears to be a problem with translator priority, though, at least for Embedded RDF and COinS. On a Persée page, I'm also seeing Embedded RDF rather than COinS, even though the COinS translator has a higher priority. We'll need to look into this as well.
  • dstillman
    The priority issue (i.e., using Embedded RDF instead of COinS) should be fixed for all users within 24 hours (or after a manual translator update in the preferences).
  • idcolvin
    Dan,
    Thanks very much for your prompt help with this, and keeping us so well informed.
    All the best,
    Ian
  • diasalm
    Hi,

    I just tried download an article from Persée but I can not do it completely, just some itens, It did not download the pdf archive and its plan. I read all these 22 comments of the topic and I am not sure if the problem is fixed. I repeat here the first question: Zotero works well and completely with Persée?
  • ajlyon
    Persée is supported using the COinS translator, which is one of the embedded metadata translators supported by Zotero (http://www.zotero.org/support/kb/default_translators). Unfortunately, the OpenURL specification that it is based on doesn't support specifying where to find full text, so Zotero doesn't download the PDFs from Persée. Still, it should download the bibliographic metadata correctly, and you can add the PDF by dragging the "PDF" in the left toolbar onto the item in your Zotero pane, once you save the item using the address bar icon.
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