Manuscript documents in Chicago Full Note No Ibid

adam.domby

So the first time you cite a manuscript something you get:
Author, “Title ,” Type (Place, Date), Loc. In Archive, Archive, URL.
The Second Time you cite that document you only get:
Author Test, “Short Title.”
Usually you still want your collection name and archive name next to it. Especially if for a book project.
How do I make it give me the full note for future citations of the same manuscript?

Similarly, When you cite a letter the second time you get:
Author to Recipient, “Short Title.”
This is useless if you have multiple letters from the same people in multiple collections and sent multiple dates. As they all become Joe Shmo to Jim Bob,
How do I get it to show:
Author to Recipient, “Title,” Date, Loc. In Archive, Archive,
for letters on subsequent citations?

adamsmith

unfortunately I don't think there's a good solution here. CMoS doesn't provide much guidance beyond "The most common short form consists of the last name of the author and the main title of the work cited"
and it's going to be hard/impossible to accommodate the various needs and preferences - that the manual allows for - in an automated citation style.

You can obviously modify & create your custom version of the Chicago style, though with Chicago specifically that's not exactly trivial to do.
http://www.zotero.org/support/dev/citation_styles/style_editing_step-by-step

adam.domby

I am not even sure what to modify on this. Which line(s) do you change to make the subsequent citations change what is given?

This is a common complaint among my colleagues, so it surprises me that no one has brought it up before. I've never seen leaving out the date on a letter as part of the short form citation or letters in Chicago style.

adamsmith

it starts here: https://github.com/citation-style-language/styles/blob/master/chicago-fullnote-bibliography.csl#L948
up to line 961.

That said, two letters with the exact same title and the same author/recipient should show the date in subsequent citations (that's the date-disambiguate part) and they do for me.