Wrong German citation in Chicago and Harvard Style

petzi

In German is the last author added with the particle "und" ("and" in English), but it is wrong to add a comma before "und". So it is wrong to say:

Picot, Arnold, Ralf Reichwald, und Rolf T. Wigand. 2008. Information, Organization and Management. 1. Aufl. Springer-Verlag Gmbh.

instead the following is correct:

Picot, Arnold, Ralf Reichwald und Rolf T. Wigand. 2008. Information, Organization and Management. 1. Aufl. Springer-Verlag Gmbh.

Another problem I have noticed surfaces with articles in edited books. The "In" before the name of the editors needs an colon "In: [name of editor]..."

I have just learned that this problem exists with the Harvard style as well.

[I wrote another comment to some German localization problems with the Harvard Notation as well. Not sure if I added it under the right thread.]

fon

Hi,
do you have a solution yet? I am using ASA and have the same problems. Need to give the paper in few days :( How can one change this? Is it handled by the styles or somewhere in zotero?
Thanks!
fon

Rintze

Another problem I have noticed surfaces with articles in edited books. The "In" before the name of the editors needs an colon "In: [name of editor]..."

I checked the style guides of Harvard 1 (http://www.zotero.org/styles/harvard1, which references http://libweb.anglia.ac.uk/referencing/harvard.htm) and Chicago (http://www.zotero.org/styles/chicago-author-date, which references http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/tools_citationguide.html), but both styles don't use a colon after the "In" before the name of the editors.

fon

That seems correct. However the date-format and the comma before "and" are wrong. Is it a style question or something else? Can I edit the style? How?

thanks! the paper needs to be published in a few...

Rintze

However the date-format and the comma before "and" are wrong. Is it a style question or something else?

Can you clarify the date-format problem? What style are you referring to, and what is the problem?

The comma before "and/und" can apparently be removed in the style by changing "delimiter-precedes-last="always"" to "delimiter-precedes-last="never"". You can do this yourself: download the style of interest (e.g. for ASA go to http://www.zotero.org/styles/asa, and use the File menu of Firefox to "Save page as..." to save the style). Then open the file with a text editor, make the change, save the file and drop the file onto a Firefox window. Firefox should then ask you whether you want to install that modified style. It isn't an ideal solution (I think there are some plans to better support localization of styles), but it may help you in the short term.

petzi

I checked the style guides of Harvard 1 ...and Chicago ... but both styles don't use a colon after the "In" before the name of the editors.

Thats right for the English version, but for the German version one would need the colon.

In the meanwhile I've learned to work with Oxygen and CSL and have finished a German version based of the Chicago style (Author-Date). I'm very happy because it works ;-)

Modeling this I could try these 4-5 minor changes which are necessary for a valid German version in "Harvard reference format 1 (Author-Date) de" as well.

But how to share the styles? I've solicited an account with Trac but I don't know how to upload the new file to the CSL repository. I assume I have to install subversion? And then? Could someone give me a hint?

fon

>> Can you clarify the date-format problem? What style are you referring to, and what >> is the problem?

Thanks a lot for the hint Rintze! The date-format problem is as stated in petzis first post. At the moment I have:

(Zugegriffen Mai 11, 2008)

which doesn´t make sense in german. It should be

(Zugegriffen: 11 Mai 2008)

so day/month/year. Probably thats changeable in the xml too, I will have a more in depth look where..

Thanks again for the help!

fon

Rintze

I use TortoiseSVN, which is a user friendly Subversion client for Windows with a graphical user interface: http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/

All I had to do after installing this client was setting up a working copy of the CSL repository, which can be accessed at https://www.zotero.org/svn/csl/. Then you have all the CSL files locally. After performing your edits, you can upload the changes by performing a commit action. I didn't have any experience with versioning software, but I got everything working in only about 15 minutes.

The info I needed to use TortoiseSVN:
http://tortoisesvn.net/docs/release/TortoiseSVN_en/tsvn-dug-checkout.html
http://tortoisesvn.net/docs/release/TortoiseSVN_en/tsvn-dug-commit.html

[edit: updated SVN link]

Rintze

"(Zugegriffen Mai 11, 2008) ... should be (Zugegriffen: 11 Mai 2008)"

In the Harvard 1 style there is a macro which describes how the date in the accessed section of the bibliography entry is formatted. The current layout is a result of the following code:

<macro name="access">
<group>
<text value="Available at:" suffix=" "/>
<text variable="URL"/>
<group prefix=" [" suffix="]">
<text term="accessed" text-case="capitalize-first" suffix=" "/>
<date variable="accessed">
<date-part name="month" suffix=" "/>
<date-part name="day" suffix=", "/>
<date-part name="year"/>
</date>
</group>
</group>
</macro>

To get your desired layout, I just had to include a colon in the suffix of the term accessed, exchange the day and month date-parts and removed the comma from the day suffix. The changed part of the macro then becomes:

<text term="accessed" text-case="capitalize-first" suffix=": "/>
<date variable="accessed">
<date-part name="day" suffix=" "/>
<date-part name="month" suffix=" "/>
<date-part name="year"/>
</date>

petzi

@Rintze, Thanks for the tips. I'm using a Mac so I had to figure out what client is there for me available. It turned out that the demo version of Oxygen comes with svn client.


@all: After fiddling around I managed to check in my style file in the zotero svn repository. I could install the file on my browser and it is fully operational. But hovering the mouse over the link it says "Error generating preview".

I don't know why the preview does not work. Could someone help me? The file is Chicago Manual of Style (Author-Date format) DE.

fon

>> The comma before "and/und" can apparently be removed in the style by changing
>> "delimiter-precedes-last="always"" to "delimiter-precedes-last="never"". You can do >> this

I managed to do this for the bibliography but not for the citations i.e. (author, author, and author year), it still does the comma before the german und.

Would be grateful if anyone had some input for me. thanks!

fon

Rintze

You can do this in the ASA style by adding 'delimiter-precedes-last="never"' in the name tag in the "author-short" macro:

Before:
<macro name="author-short">
<names variable="author">
<name form="short" and="text" delimiter=", "/>
After:
<macro name="author-short">
<names variable="author">
<name form="short" and="text" delimiter=", " delimiter-precedes-last="never"/>
The change you made only altered the way the bibliography is formatted (the bibliography uses the macro "author" to determine how it should format author data). For the citations, the macro "author-short" is used.

fon

Thank you Rintze. I tried that out too but it did not work even after several refreshes and style changes. Your post got me to delete those citations and redo them, that way it worked! :)

thanks again for your support!
fon

georg6170

Thanks a lot for discussion.

@Rintze: Your tip worked for me.