Different works by same author listed without dash replacing author's name

telagraham

I am running Zotero 3.0.7 and Zotero Word for Windows Integration 3.1.6. When I click "Insert Zotero Bibliography" with Chicago style in MS Word 2007, I am getting inconsistent bibliography entries for same author; some with the appropriate dash, and some without. Some books come before journal articles or multiple authors (including this one), and some after. I would paste the example below, but without formatting it's just a blob of text.

adamsmith

my best guess would be that the authors aren't exactly the same, but we'd have to see the bibliography (you can e.g. post a screenshot to imageshack.us and link to it here) to be sure.

If you are absolutely certain that the authors are entered exactly the same, export a minimal number of items to reproduce this issue to zotero RDF (right click --> Export Selected Items as...), open the exported file in a text editor, copy all and paste the content to gist.github.com or pastebin.com and link to it from here.

telagraham

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/murphybib.jpg/

Obviously, several are multiple authors or editors, and are correctly separate, but the ones by Murphy alone are scattered. I double checked spelling/spacing/periods in her name.

Rintze

That indeed looks strange. Which Chicago Manual of Style style variant are you using? (I want to know the full style name)

telagraham

Chicago Manual of Style (note)

adamsmith

yeah, that looks strange. Could you please help us by doing this then:

If you are absolutely certain that the authors are entered exactly the same, export a minimal number of items to reproduce this issue to zotero RDF (right click --> Export Selected Items as...), open the exported file in a text editor, copy all and paste the content to gist.github.com or pastebin.com and link to it from here.

If you give use the nine items from the screenshot that'd be perfect. Obviously export w/o notes and attachments.

Rintze

So the problem is that the references aren't sorted correctly by author (or editor).

Can you reproduce the problem in a fresh Word document? Could you follow adamsmith's instructions above and generate Zotero RDF for the items in your example, and post that to the web so we can take a look?

telagraham

http://pastebin.com/embed_js.php?i=kyugjGyi

adamsmith

first testing note:
changing
<key macro="sort-key"/>

to
<key macro="contributors"/>
fixes this. I don't have the time to do check whether this is a style or a citeproc issue, but we should definitely be able to fix it in the style.

telagraham

This may be a dumb question, but I'm not familiar with how/where to change the code. Is there a guide somewhere, or is there just a file I edit?

Rintze

Are you in a hurry? If not, it's likely that @fbennett will tackle what seems to be a bug and fix this for the next version of Zotero. If you are, I can describe the style fix in more detail or supply an already modified style.

fbennett

I don't get the same sort ordering here (Linux Ubuntu, Firefox 12.0, latest citeproc-js version). I can try later with Z 3.0.7, but here is what I get in the bibliography with "Chicago Manual of Style (note)":

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/72/unbrokenbib.png/

Here is what the processor is seeing in the sort keys:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/unbrokensortkeys2.png/

The application of dashes may also be an issue, but the sort should be fixed up first. I'm curious why the sort comes out differently in a different environment; that shouldn't happen. @telagraham: what platform are you using (Windows 7, Windows XP, Mac OS-something, Linux etc)?

(Edit: sort keys screenshot link amended to show actual keys used in the sort, with "and" join properly omitted.)

fbennett

I just tried the Murphy set under a clean Zotero 3.0.7 install, and I get the same sort results that I posted above.

If telegraham and anyone else who gets the other sort ordering can post system details, that will help get us started toward figuring out what's going on here.

Rintze

@adamsmith, could you reproduce the problem with http://www.zotero.org/styles/chicago-note-bibliography? I get the same sort order as Frank with Zotero Standalone 3.0.7 under Windows XP.

Rintze

Also, @telagraham, could you install the latest version of the "Chicago Manual of Style (note)" style from http://www.zotero.org/styles and check whether you get the same sort order?

fbennett

As you can see from the sort-keys listing, even with the "correct" sort behaviour that Rintze and I are seeing, the sort order is probably not (humanly) correct. One would need to check the sort requirements of CMS, but presumably the joint-authored "Brown" entry should not fall between the sole-authored "Bodies" and "Darwin" entries. That's just a problem with the way the keys are defined in the style, and can be fixed easily. But the discrepancy in sort behaviour is our puzzler of the moment.

adamsmith

(I might have used an old version of the style - I don't use Note styles a lot - will double check later).

telagraham

I used the latest version of the style, and am still getting single- and multiple-author entries shuffled. Running Windows 7.

fbennett

Will take a Windows 7 machine home this evening, and see if I can reproduce. This is with Word?

telagraham

Correct, Windows 7 and Word 2007. If the new version won't be out before June, I'd appreciate some guidance on the code fix. Thanks!

fbennett

One sec though, before I head for the door. We asked whether you are getting the same sort result as shown in this screenshot. Your own screenshot shows the "Human Identity" cite, edited with Knight, at the top of the listing. That would be strange, given what we see in the sort keys, and none of us have yet been able to reproduce it. We would like you to check again, with the "Chicago Manual of Style (note)" style, with those specific entries, and let us know whether or not you get the same sort ordering that Rintze and I see.

We know that single- and multiple- author items are interlaced in the listing. As I said above, that's due to the way the keys are set up (the author list and the title are banged into a single key, which results in that behaviour -- a quick look at the second screenshot I linked to above shows why). The cause of this mixing of single- and multiple-authored items is known, and it will be easy to fix. But we don't yet know the cause of the sort discrepancy between your listing and mine. To avoid confusion, we want to confirm that that's really happening, and then pin down the cause, before going further.

telagraham

This is what I'm getting right now:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/murphybib2.jpg/

Same as the first screenshot, as far as I can tell.

fbennett

Great stuff, thanks. This is different from your first, but the same as we were getting, and conforms to expectations with that style. We'll write off the earlier result as either due to using a different style, or some other external factor.

The processor is doing what it's told, so it will just be a matter of adjusting the sort keys. I've been meaning to subscribe to CMS so I'll do that now, track down the exact sorting and placeholder substitution rules that they specify, and fix up the Chicago styles to sort correctly. Hold on for a couple of hours, this will soon be sorted out (so to speak).

fbennett

Try this version: https://gist.github.com/2653175

I haven't tested, but it should be somewhere near correct.

telagraham

I'm still clueless as to how to modify the code in Zotero.

Rintze

Download fbennett's style (it's the "raw" link: https://raw.github.com/gist/2653175/07f897b7888da5befaf99091fb2c0e0ed52ffee2/chicago-note-bibliography-for-testing.csl ) and install the style: http://www.zotero.org/support/styles#installing_additional_styles

You don't have to modify any code yourself.

adamsmith

download using the raw link on the top right of that page (right-click -->save link as).
If you're using Zotero for Firefox, just drag the downloaded chicago-note-bibliography-for-testing.csl to any open Firefox window.

If you're using standalone, go to the preferences -->Cite-->Styles, click the + and then select the file.

telagraham

That's definitely not what I'm looking for. It's not even in bibliography form anymore. Is this user error here? (This bibliography has a few more entries--just ignore the extras.)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/murphybib3.jpg/

Rintze

It seems fbennett put up the wrong version. Best wait until he wakes up in a few hours (he's based in Japan). You can reinstall the style from the style repository in the meantime if you wish.

telagraham

Thanks, I did that.

fbennett

Sorry about that! :)

Gratifying to see the sort order is correct, though. Will restore the layout code and have the file up in a jiffy.