I have installed the latest version but there are many problems. eg. book citation: the author's name is not in small caps (should be), there is a colon : before the page number (should not be), in articles the journal name does not appear at all, the indention is not accroding to the bb style etc.
Any idea when an upfated version might be ready?

Also, a great addition would be an option of a short reference according to bb guidelines for additional references to a source after the first full reference.

thanks

OK, I fixed your problems 1 and 2.

I'm not seeing your problem 3, and don't understand the indentation issue, nor exactly how to deal with the subsequent citations (right now it will just print the author). So I've mostly left these alone.

Feel to load it from the style repo and experiment. If you're adventurous, you can load it in csledit.xul and see if you can work out how to fix details on your own. If not, report them here. The more specific, the more likely I can help.

Citing an article out of a book has its own rules so should have an independent entry. The rules are: author, indented article name, [comma, not indented] in [indented]- book citation [small caps, like regular book citation] -page number for the article in the book, page number of specific reference in article - year.

I have a copy of the Bluebook (that someone here kindly sent to me), and I'm not seeing this. The examples in the inside cover, for example, indicate a rather standard "In" and then the containing item is simply printed inline.

Can you point me to exactly where it explains this further?

Also, in books, if the publication date refers to a later edition, there should be an option of adding, in square brackets, after the whole citation, the year of original publication.

CSL supports this; but Zotero doesn't (ATM). So even I add it, it won't help you currently unfortunately.

Life changing software-thanks!

A couple more changes needed for citing journal articles. Right now
(1) The year of publication is not in parens
(2) the page cite is the range of pages on which the article appears, as in most other fields. Bluebook wants the first page only
(3) A problem that may need to be directed to the main Zotero dept. Bluebook citation wants full author first names. My entries almost all have initials only, so there's nothing for the bluebook coding to work with. I am almost sure the original source (usually Google Scholar) had full names available. Is there a preference I can set to get full names, or does this need to be fixed in Zotero?

Many many thanks!

One more date issue. Bluebook journal date cites are year only. At present Zotero puts the month in also where it's available ie June 1998 rather than (1998)

Thanks!

Just wondering if there is any chance of having these changes made fairly soon. They would REALLY help me., I'd be happy to help in any way I can, either with these or with some other aspect of bluebooking or legal research

What do I download--just reinstall the whole bluebook style?

What do I download--just reinstall the whole bluebook style?

Yes.

Oops, sorry about that Isis. Try again; it should work now.

nas:

Unfortunately, editing citation styles is one thing that seems to be a lot harder in Zotero than in those other products.

That's only because there really isn't a UI ... yet. Once that problem's solved, I think you'll find it a lot easier actually.

The thing I would most appreciate seeing changed with the Bluebook style is references to already-cited items. Right now, I'm getting Ibids (which Bluebook doesn't use at all) or references by author lastname (which is incorrect for Bluebook.) When referring to the same source as an immediately-preceding citation, Bluebook uses "Id." in italics, then (if it's a different page than the previous citation) the word "at", then the page number.

So you're saying a) BB does use ibid, but just use a different term for it, and b) the current BB style gives you ibid substitutions? That'd be odd, since the current style has no ibid rules in it.

I'd also love to see another attempt at case citations - right now I'm getting multiple appearances of the case names, an extra comma after the reporter name, and sometimes an extra space before the year.

OK, I *am* seeing the multiple titles. I'll check on that. I'm not seeing the extra commas, so it'd be good if you can try to identify the circumstances under which that occurs.

Also, correct citation for courts other than the US Supreme Court includes the court name before the year - but that would involve a complicated test to figure out what court and the right abbreviation, which is why (I think) none of the other citation software has attempted a Bluebook style. This stuff is just too darned arcane.

:-)

bdarcus:
Thanks for your efforts! I'm still seeing two titles when I cite to a case, and the extra comma that I'm seeing comes between the reporter name and the first page number - here's a sample:
ABKCO Music, Inc. v. Harrisongs Music, Ltd., ABKCO Music, Inc. v. Harrisongs Music, Ltd., 722 F.2d, 988 (1982)
Should be:
ABKCO Music, Inc. v. Harrisongs Music, Ltd., 722 F.2d 988 (2d Cir. 1982).
If I were citing to a specific page within the opinion, then there would be a comma, as in:
ABKCO Music, Inc. v. Harrisongs Music, Ltd., 722 F.2d 988, 990-91 (2d Cir. 1982).

So you're saying a) BB does use ibid, but just use a different term for it, and b) the current BB style gives you ibid substitutions? That'd be odd, since the current style has no ibid rules in it.

a) BB uses "Id." to refer to something citing in the immediately preceding citation (but only if it was the only thing in the immediately preceding citation).
So a repeat of the Harrisongs case citation might look like:
Id.
or
Id. at 995

Later-cited instances of previously cited works get arcane again
Cases should invoke the name and reporter, but not in as much detail as before:
ABKCO v. Harrisongs, 722 F.2d at 995.
But if you're using footnotes, non-primary authorities can use the "supra" indicator (which is actually heavily used by legal writers, because goodness knows whether you'll get the latter citation right, so you might as well just stick with the first one, and hope that was close to correct). But anyway, you get a lot of cites like:
(authorname), supra note (# of original citation) at (new pages cited).

Arcane, as I said. I'm a librarian, and I think this citation system is out of control.

b) the current BB style is giving me just the author name for previously cited works - not even showing specific page numbers if I enter those. Some style that I used in an older paper was showing me Ibids, but I don't think that was BB.

As to the supra /id problem, I suspect that that is not a problem that can be handled until the final draft of an article, brief, whatever. It is a wretchedly stupid system. One of the many problems it presents is that often as you are editing, what was once the first occurrence of a cite moves to later and an initially later cite moves up to first place. I suspect that the best way to deal with this would be a macro or something that you wouldn't run until the very end. In any event that is how I always do it when working the old fashioned way. But if it is possible to have immediate updates, my hat's off to the programmer.

One more petty thing. Journal title citations should drop any "the" at the beginning, ie "Journal of Political Economy" not "The Journal of Political Economy". Zotero has been scraping "The" for some journals. I can just drop these by hand in the database entry but I do sometimes use non-bluebook citation formats. Do other formats use the "The"?

Many of them don't. There is a ticket for this--see the discussion attached to the ticket for possible solutions.

BTW, CSL does not support rules like op. cit., and it never will. They serve no useful purpose for anyone, and there's only so much insanity I'm willing to support ;-)

Totally with you on this. Sadly, who knows what it will take to convince the hordes of anal-retentive student editors trained in the law review system. Over 22 years ago, Richard Posner, an incredibly influential judge on the 7th Circuit court of appeals, published an essay tearing into the Bluebook style, but the Bluebook is still the dominant format. (Choice quote: "The vacuity and tendentiousness of so much legal reasoning are concealed by the awesome scrupulousness with which a set of intricate rules governing the form of citations is observed.")

Isis: hmm ... your "supra" issue is actually the op.cit issue I claimed I'd never support ;-)

In truth, notwithstanding my hostility to these as a reader, the basics of this are fairly easy to support. You basically just say to use the string "supra" for subsequent citations.

One potential problem, though, is making sure ibid (or whatever it's called in BB) still works.

Another (bigger) problem is the other bit: the need to refer to the note for the first occurrence. I'll look into this, but I suspect it would require some changes to CSL to enable it. This feature at least makes op.cit./supra a little more manageable for the reader.

Yikes ... how embarrassing! Fixed now.

To use it, you just click the "install" link.

Almost there! Still doesnt quite work. When footnote 1 was

1 Mary E Becker, Barriers Facing Women in the Wage-Labor Market and the Need for Additional Remedies: A Reply to Fischel and Lazear, 53 The University of Chicago Law Review 934-949 (1986); R. R. Banks, J. L. Eberhardt & L. Ross, Discrimination and Implicit Bias in a Racially Unequal Society, 94 California Law Review 1169 (2006)

Footnote 2 came out
R. R. Banks, J. L. Eberhardt & L. Ross, supra note 2; Mary E Becker, supra note 1

In other words, it said that the second cxite in fn 1 was in fn 2

Thanks!

Many thanks for trying.

BTW do you know how I would find out about the status of Lexis westlaw and other legal translators? I've been posting in the relevant forums and I haven't got a response

We do not have translators for Lexis and Westlaw primarily because George Mason does not subscribe to them. Without access our devs cant work on them. Our heinonline translator is broken, ticket created https://www.zotero.org/trac/ticket/968

Hey,
I'm quite enjoying the implementation of "supra", despite its incorrect reference numbers, because, as Isis says, wow, a lot better to just be able to fill in the right number.

However. (There's always a however.) Support for "Id." (which is the Bluebook version of Ibid) would be equally helpful for me. Even implementing "Ibid" which I could do a find-and-replace on, would be really helpful.

I looked at the style, and it doesn't look like Ibid is turned on at all (which I think bdarcus said a few days ago.) I can see that the conditional that's implementing "supra" right now, is a simple "if first citation, do the whole citation; else do supra and a reference number." Is it possible in CSL to do a more complicated conditional that would implement both? i.e., "if first citation, do the whole thing; else if referring to same source as immediately previous reference, do "Id" (or Ibid); else do supra and reference #;"

I worry I'm being too demanding, but it's just that I'm so excited by the potential of Zotero. Taught a workshop on it at the University of Michigan library on Tuesday - there were oohs and ahhs for a lot of features, as well as for the exchanges in this forum. Thanks!

OK, try now. I was in a hurry, so didn't test it, but this stuff should (mostly) work as expected. I still need to add support for cite pages though (I think).

Hi

Just wondering what the status is of the two different systems of citations, one for practitioners and one for law reviews. My case cites are now in small caps, which I assume is the practititoner style, while I'd like italics. Is it possible now to choose which style to use, or is this in development?

Also, I understand it may be a while, but is there a target date for the remaining changes in the law review cites?

Thanks!

A very useful reference is Introduction to Basic Legal Citation by Peter W. Martin at the Cornell Legal Information Institute. It synthesizes the different systems and point out where they differ.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/citation/full_toc.htm

His discussion says either case names are either underlined (outdated with word processing) or italicized, under all citation forms

Also useful and authoritative, saying case cites always ital:

http://www.alwd.org/publications/pdf/TR2_ComparisonChart.pdf


which again says that both bluebook and ALWD use itals for case cites.

I can find no source that says small caps for cases. The bluebook, but not ALWD, seems to use small caps for

Constitutions: Abbreviations (CAL. CONST.)
Statutes: Statutory abbreviation (FLA. STAT.)
Books: Author names and titles (AUTHOR, TITLE OF BOOK 55–56 (2005).
Periodicals: Periodical abbreviation (MICH. L. REV.)
Restatements: Title (RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS)

I'm happy to do any further research that would help

{nevermind}

Hi all

Just wondering if/when either the Zotero folks or nas will be posting an updated style. I donit mean to be impatient, just excited!

Thanks!

That would be great-thanks